1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,110 I 2 00:00:34,340 --> 00:00:14,820 hello 3 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:36,030 all right 4 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:37,930 welcome to the show everyone I'm mark 5 00:00:44,579 --> 00:00:39,970 from Willis your host it's actually a 6 00:00:49,319 --> 00:00:44,589 sad day in ufology today we lost a great 7 00:00:51,299 --> 00:00:49,329 icon Stanton Friedman and so the first 8 00:00:53,670 --> 00:00:51,309 part of this show is going to be 9 00:00:56,189 --> 00:00:53,680 dedicated to stand and actually we'll 10 00:00:58,529 --> 00:00:56,199 take calls you know later on in the show 11 00:00:59,970 --> 00:00:58,539 people want to talk about their 12 00:01:03,479 --> 00:00:59,980 experience with Stanton or their 13 00:01:04,740 --> 00:01:03,489 thoughts we'll have that available as 14 00:01:07,740 --> 00:01:04,750 well 15 00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:07,750 I actually was messaged this morning 16 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:10,780 early from a guy named Garrett on 17 00:01:16,020 --> 00:01:12,910 Facebook he saw something on Reddit 18 00:01:19,710 --> 00:01:16,030 about 7 o'clock in the morning Eastern 19 00:01:22,410 --> 00:01:19,720 Standard Time and ends up we thought it 20 00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:22,420 was just a rumor a hoax 21 00:01:27,690 --> 00:01:24,880 I called Kathleen Martin and she had no 22 00:01:32,969 --> 00:01:27,700 idea and later on found out it was 23 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:32,979 indeed indeed the truth so Alejandro and 24 00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:35,650 I are gonna be talking a bit about our 25 00:01:42,420 --> 00:01:38,590 experience with Stanton the great 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:42,430 Stanton Friedman over the years and I 27 00:01:45,990 --> 00:01:44,530 want to thank everyone for listening and 28 00:01:47,969 --> 00:01:46,000 I want to thank everyone that supports 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:47,979 the show and this whole show is going to 30 00:01:56,670 --> 00:01:53,530 be in the free category of my shows so 31 00:02:00,539 --> 00:01:56,680 anyone can listen and welcome to the 32 00:02:03,870 --> 00:02:00,549 show Alejandro hello hello hello sad day 33 00:02:06,899 --> 00:02:03,880 huh sad day yeah it is a really sad day 34 00:02:10,410 --> 00:02:06,909 I mean like you I woke up to an email 35 00:02:12,569 --> 00:02:10,420 from a family member someone claiming to 36 00:02:16,140 --> 00:02:12,579 be a family member of Stanton's right 37 00:02:17,670 --> 00:02:16,150 and and like you I was doubtful because 38 00:02:20,100 --> 00:02:17,680 this has happened before where people 39 00:02:22,110 --> 00:02:20,110 have claimed and fortunately you know I 40 00:02:24,569 --> 00:02:22,120 was able to call Stanton and he answered 41 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:24,579 the phone and I told him hey rumor is 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:28,510 had you passed away and he's like no but 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:30,730 this time unfortunately when I called he 44 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:34,090 wasn't answering the phone and yeah and 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:35,860 that's about the time that you texted me 46 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:38,370 and then so we got a hold of Kathleen 47 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:40,860 we were able to confirm it with the 48 00:02:46,970 --> 00:02:44,910 family and other family members so yeah 49 00:02:50,119 --> 00:02:46,980 it turned out to be real unfortunately 50 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:50,129 and actually I got ahold of my friend 51 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:52,170 Laurie because I don't know I don't 52 00:02:58,580 --> 00:02:53,730 think I've even shared this part with 53 00:03:01,280 --> 00:02:58,590 you so Kathleen one of the things a 54 00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:01,290 family member told me was that he passed 55 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:04,940 on his way back from an event yeah and 56 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:09,690 yes in Toronto with nori and it's my 57 00:03:16,370 --> 00:03:11,910 friend Laurie Wagner who arranges though 58 00:03:19,610 --> 00:03:16,380 so I called her earlier today just and 59 00:03:22,190 --> 00:03:19,620 she of course was super sad and yeah I 60 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:22,200 guess what had happened is that she you 61 00:03:27,339 --> 00:03:24,390 know they invited him to come out and 62 00:03:29,930 --> 00:03:27,349 talk to this at this event with nori 63 00:03:33,710 --> 00:03:29,940 everybody I'd gone home but his flight 64 00:03:35,780 --> 00:03:33,720 was delayed 24 hours oh so he was doing 65 00:03:39,140 --> 00:03:35,790 fine he was at home reading a book on 66 00:03:41,660 --> 00:03:39,150 Obama and he was just gonna stay home at 67 00:03:45,170 --> 00:03:41,670 the in the in the room for the day 68 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:45,180 relaxing and the next day the flight did 69 00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:48,930 leave and then at the airport is where 70 00:03:57,229 --> 00:03:52,910 it happened he had a heart attack and 71 00:04:01,339 --> 00:03:57,239 sadly yeah at the airport well well 72 00:04:05,569 --> 00:04:01,349 that's something else some it took quite 73 00:04:07,699 --> 00:04:05,579 a you know it was a several hours before 74 00:04:09,860 --> 00:04:07,709 you know from from the time that I heard 75 00:04:13,370 --> 00:04:09,870 about it originally after Garrett had 76 00:04:14,839 --> 00:04:13,380 messaged me until you know Cathy was 77 00:04:18,110 --> 00:04:14,849 saying she was waiting to hear from him 78 00:04:19,849 --> 00:04:18,120 and right it took several hours for her 79 00:04:21,650 --> 00:04:19,859 to find out with all the people she 80 00:04:23,420 --> 00:04:21,660 knows connected you know they were very 81 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:23,430 very close 82 00:04:27,770 --> 00:04:25,710 yeah and I guess you know I was 83 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:27,780 surprised how can I be told before 84 00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:30,450 Kathleen but I didn't I'm not sure who 85 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:32,460 this family member was I had never heard 86 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:36,510 of them before and you know the family 87 00:04:40,010 --> 00:04:38,370 she was having a hard time getting ahold 88 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:40,020 of them but that of course was because 89 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:42,810 they were actually trying to get ahold 90 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:44,310 of other family members before the 91 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:47,250 information was wrigley so yeah some I 92 00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:48,990 well there's still a mystery how the 93 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:51,120 information kind of got released 94 00:04:56,420 --> 00:04:54,000 that this had happened that is dream on 95 00:04:58,909 --> 00:04:56,430 rented in all places but I do want to 96 00:05:01,730 --> 00:04:58,919 say that Kathy did tell me that she is 97 00:05:04,939 --> 00:05:01,740 you know the family is really looking 98 00:05:09,170 --> 00:05:04,949 for their privacy to be respected and 99 00:05:12,439 --> 00:05:09,180 that if any media wants to talk to 100 00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:12,449 anyone to contact her and if someone's 101 00:05:14,930 --> 00:05:13,500 listening to this show and they're 102 00:05:17,810 --> 00:05:14,940 involved in the media and need to 103 00:05:20,570 --> 00:05:17,820 contact Kathy Martin just message me my 104 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:20,580 information is right on podcast UFO be 105 00:05:24,830 --> 00:05:22,530 glad to pass passed the information 106 00:05:26,540 --> 00:05:24,840 along but she does want to make sure 107 00:05:28,070 --> 00:05:26,550 that people do respect the privacy of 108 00:05:32,719 --> 00:05:28,080 the family and that's what they 109 00:05:36,379 --> 00:05:32,729 requested yeah yeah so I guess you know 110 00:05:37,939 --> 00:05:36,389 it Stanton was older he he had a heart 111 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:37,949 attack in the past you know thinking 112 00:05:43,730 --> 00:05:41,010 about it today it's kind of like I think 113 00:05:47,090 --> 00:05:43,740 in a way he was in a bit of denial he 114 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:47,100 was told everybody he retired last year 115 00:05:53,060 --> 00:05:50,850 even at Roswell fortunately I did these 116 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:53,070 interviews because last year at Roswell 117 00:05:56,990 --> 00:05:55,650 was supposed to be his last so I did a 118 00:05:59,629 --> 00:05:57,000 couple of you know 119 00:06:02,480 --> 00:05:59,639 Stanton's last interview at Roswell but 120 00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:02,490 he didn't want to quit so the director 121 00:06:08,930 --> 00:06:03,750 was even like you know what we're gonna 122 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:08,940 get him back and and they they did he 123 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:11,130 just Stanton committed to come back to 124 00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:12,450 Roswell and he was going to be there 125 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:15,840 this year so it's kind of a good thing 126 00:06:18,529 --> 00:06:17,160 we thought it would be his last so we 127 00:06:20,420 --> 00:06:18,539 could you know get in at least some 128 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:20,430 goodbyes or at least get some interviews 129 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:23,970 and things like that and before he left 130 00:06:28,339 --> 00:06:26,520 but you know he kept going even after he 131 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:28,349 had that heart attack a couple years ago 132 00:06:34,820 --> 00:06:30,930 and all of us I think felt you know he's 133 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:34,830 so bright I talked with Jim Harold you 134 00:06:40,670 --> 00:06:37,680 know this paranormal podcast and he said 135 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:40,680 that he last night or this weekend he 136 00:06:46,219 --> 00:06:43,289 was there in Toronto and he you know 137 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:46,229 Stanton was witty and bright as normal 138 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:48,930 and he's just shocked you know and and I 139 00:06:51,650 --> 00:06:50,370 think that's all of our experiences 140 00:06:54,290 --> 00:06:51,660 those of us who got to spend time with 141 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:54,300 him I last time I was with him I think 142 00:06:59,719 --> 00:06:56,970 was Big Bear just a couple months ago in 143 00:07:02,890 --> 00:06:59,729 California and he was you know just as 144 00:07:04,999 --> 00:07:02,900 delightful and and cheerful and bright 145 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:05,009 answering people's questions 146 00:07:14,089 --> 00:07:07,710 and just right there you know so 147 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:14,099 intelligent and he was he was definitely 148 00:07:18,109 --> 00:07:16,710 a very special person you know in this 149 00:07:21,409 --> 00:07:18,119 field yeah absolutely 150 00:07:22,609 --> 00:07:21,419 I was lucky enough to while I did my the 151 00:07:25,579 --> 00:07:22,619 retirement show with him 152 00:07:29,209 --> 00:07:25,589 that was last October and I had refused 153 00:07:31,850 --> 00:07:29,219 to quit he kept going he kept going as 154 00:07:35,029 --> 00:07:31,860 in the very last day he was at you know 155 00:07:37,159 --> 00:07:35,039 at that speaking engagement so I think 156 00:07:39,950 --> 00:07:37,169 he was kind of changing his mind on 157 00:07:43,159 --> 00:07:39,960 retiring and he loved doing it so yeah 158 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:43,169 yeah yeah yeah I guess that you know 159 00:07:47,989 --> 00:07:46,649 before he even you know while I was 160 00:07:50,119 --> 00:07:47,999 talking with Kathleen and we're trying 161 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:50,129 to figure out what was going on she said 162 00:07:55,369 --> 00:07:52,770 that he kind of was thinking wow I'm 163 00:07:58,129 --> 00:07:55,379 really tired and maybe I shouldn't have 164 00:07:59,360 --> 00:07:58,139 booked this gig and she was saying you 165 00:08:02,409 --> 00:07:59,370 know what you got to cut it out you've 166 00:08:05,329 --> 00:08:02,419 got to really cancel all the other 167 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:05,339 traveling that you have booked of course 168 00:08:09,139 --> 00:08:06,930 he had the UFO Congress we're gonna 169 00:08:11,749 --> 00:08:09,149 honor him there that's right that's 170 00:08:13,429 --> 00:08:11,759 right and and he had a couple other 171 00:08:15,139 --> 00:08:13,439 things he was gonna be doing and she was 172 00:08:16,670 --> 00:08:15,149 like no you can't do that and he agreed 173 00:08:18,559 --> 00:08:16,680 he was like you're right you know this 174 00:08:21,350 --> 00:08:18,569 is just too much for me so it sounds 175 00:08:23,269 --> 00:08:21,360 like he was not going to do any events 176 00:08:26,809 --> 00:08:23,279 after this one anyway because he really 177 00:08:29,329 --> 00:08:26,819 was fill in it and it's unfortunate he 178 00:08:33,409 --> 00:08:29,339 didn't make it you know through this one 179 00:08:35,659 --> 00:08:33,419 but at the same time you know I think a 180 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:35,669 lot of us feel this way that we want to 181 00:08:40,579 --> 00:08:38,130 keep doing what we have a passion for 182 00:08:42,170 --> 00:08:40,589 yeah until the end yeah and that's what 183 00:08:44,660 --> 00:08:42,180 he did yeah that's right 184 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:44,670 I'd like to one of the things I would 185 00:08:52,430 --> 00:08:49,050 like to play quickly here is a he had a 186 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:52,440 sense of humor so and this is very 187 00:09:00,620 --> 00:08:54,930 surprising that he would do this but um 188 00:09:06,079 --> 00:09:00,630 I years ago back in 2000 I think 14 or 189 00:09:10,639 --> 00:09:06,089 15 I had I made my podcast UFO website 190 00:09:13,699 --> 00:09:10,649 into a spoof for April 1st April Fool's 191 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:13,709 Day so I called Stannis said hey Stan 192 00:09:17,620 --> 00:09:15,689 can you you know how you always say 193 00:09:21,820 --> 00:09:17,630 flying saucers are 194 00:09:24,850 --> 00:09:21,830 real I said can you uh I said for April 195 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:24,860 Fool's Day can you do a little spoof on 196 00:09:30,010 --> 00:09:27,050 that so I called him up and I'm gonna 197 00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:30,020 play the clip now Alejandro and anyone 198 00:09:38,020 --> 00:09:34,310 else I don't know if they're gonna be 199 00:09:39,790 --> 00:09:38,030 hearing this on on I know they'll hear 200 00:09:42,460 --> 00:09:39,800 it on YouTube but I'm not sure if we're 201 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:42,470 gonna be hearing it on kgr a radio you 202 00:09:46,750 --> 00:09:44,330 know what I'm gonna do because of that 203 00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:46,760 I'm gonna save it till the break because 204 00:09:50,350 --> 00:09:48,320 I know the people on YouTube will hear 205 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:50,360 it so I'll wait for that you know what 206 00:09:54,250 --> 00:09:51,830 you could do was I've done this before 207 00:09:54,820 --> 00:09:54,260 and it seems like you know silly but it 208 00:09:56,620 --> 00:09:54,830 works 209 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:56,630 it's just play it off your phone and put 210 00:09:59,410 --> 00:09:58,010 the phone next to the microphone no I 211 00:10:02,140 --> 00:09:59,420 can't do that now I have it loaded on 212 00:10:05,770 --> 00:10:02,150 now yes but no yeah so we'll continue 213 00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:05,780 but yep one of the things I want to say 214 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:12,950 about Stan as as a as a person and not 215 00:10:18,130 --> 00:10:15,110 just you know his great integrity and 216 00:10:19,690 --> 00:10:18,140 you know his his you know try to stick 217 00:10:21,190 --> 00:10:19,700 to the facts I know there's a little 218 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:21,200 controversy here and there about a 219 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:23,510 couple things you know he was very 220 00:10:31,420 --> 00:10:27,040 interested in but still is he was always 221 00:10:33,790 --> 00:10:31,430 approachable you think about at every 222 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:33,800 conference I've ever seen Stan he's 223 00:10:39,820 --> 00:10:36,020 right there in the front with Kathy 224 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:39,830 usually beside him Kathy Martin and you 225 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:41,810 can walk right up anyone can walk right 226 00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:46,370 up he was not in any way snut of any 227 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:49,070 type he was very open to talking to 228 00:10:54,130 --> 00:10:52,370 anyone about anything and mm-hmm 229 00:10:55,810 --> 00:10:54,140 you know I mean he's going to be missed 230 00:10:58,210 --> 00:10:55,820 at all the conference's I think about 231 00:10:59,380 --> 00:10:58,220 the International UFO Congress with you 232 00:11:01,540 --> 00:10:59,390 walk in the door and there he is with 233 00:11:02,110 --> 00:11:01,550 Kathy Kathy yeah we would put him right 234 00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:02,120 up front 235 00:11:07,210 --> 00:11:04,760 yep you're right and not only that he 236 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:07,220 would do so many events he was so open 237 00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:10,250 to talking to anyone about anything and 238 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:13,100 he would do so many events and I think 239 00:11:18,430 --> 00:11:15,650 that you know I you know another thing 240 00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:18,440 Jim Harold said that sure Stanton looks 241 00:11:22,210 --> 00:11:20,000 tired at some of these events especially 242 00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:22,220 lately but he's like you know I'm in my 243 00:11:26,980 --> 00:11:24,560 40s and then so am I and I feel the same 244 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:26,990 way but I feel tired I feel just as 245 00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:28,970 tired as him but you know he always kept 246 00:11:34,030 --> 00:11:31,400 going he and it's kind of been 247 00:11:37,150 --> 00:11:34,040 funny with him I mean and is that he 248 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:37,160 pretty much never says no to any 249 00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:39,890 requests were to appear somewhere he's 250 00:11:44,950 --> 00:11:42,830 you know he's kind of settled down a 251 00:11:48,130 --> 00:11:44,960 little bit over the last few years but 252 00:11:49,870 --> 00:11:48,140 especially for the longest time any time 253 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:49,880 anybody asked him to speak he would come 254 00:11:56,070 --> 00:11:52,850 do it and he would talk to people like 255 00:11:59,470 --> 00:11:56,080 he said he's done thousands of lectures 256 00:12:02,080 --> 00:11:59,480 anywhere from a group of you know rocket 257 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:02,090 scientists cuz he has done lectures at 258 00:12:09,850 --> 00:12:06,650 NASA or near NASA facilities a to you 259 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:09,860 know to schools to children I mean he 260 00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:12,430 did such a huge variety of different 261 00:12:18,670 --> 00:12:16,220 talking to different groups and you know 262 00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:18,680 a person of really high integrity of 263 00:12:22,060 --> 00:12:20,750 course people like to say dr. Stanton 264 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:22,070 Friedman and that was one of his pet 265 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:23,570 peeves I'm not a doctor I'm not a doctor 266 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:25,730 you know which was good that he would 267 00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:27,530 clarify because not everybody does that 268 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:28,670 and some people who've got in trouble 269 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:31,930 for that sort of thing in the past but 270 00:12:38,610 --> 00:12:34,610 he was just extremely unique he was one 271 00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:38,620 of the more credible intelligent witty 272 00:12:43,630 --> 00:12:41,750 and great speakers and researchers in 273 00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:43,640 this field and also one of the most 274 00:12:48,490 --> 00:12:47,120 prolific on top of that not just in the 275 00:12:52,090 --> 00:12:48,500 number of talks he does but the number 276 00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:52,100 of books he's written right so yeah yeah 277 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:54,350 I mean the the number of ways he's 278 00:13:00,940 --> 00:12:58,130 unique is is almost endless right in and 279 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:00,950 I you know some people would say oh you 280 00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:02,720 know some I would get some feedback some 281 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:04,700 would say well he says you know more or 282 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:06,170 less the same thing every time he's on 283 00:13:11,170 --> 00:13:08,210 my show and I don't think anyone has 284 00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:11,180 ever been on the show more than him but 285 00:13:15,310 --> 00:13:12,800 you know what and they would say at the 286 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:15,320 end but I love him anyway and I love to 287 00:13:21,370 --> 00:13:18,110 hear it you know he did say a lot of the 288 00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,380 same things repeatedly but people still 289 00:13:24,430 --> 00:13:22,880 love to hear it because they you know 290 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:24,440 made a lot of sense what he were saying 291 00:13:29,410 --> 00:13:27,650 yeah his tag lines were great I use him 292 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:29,420 and probably will use him forever 293 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:32,210 noisy negative the best you know gray 294 00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:34,250 basket some of these other terms that 295 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:36,500 you use Eddie what was the study he was 296 00:13:42,460 --> 00:13:40,010 I don't even remember but yeah but you 297 00:13:44,410 --> 00:13:42,470 know all the way back when I started 298 00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:44,420 when I was doing Colorado move on and 299 00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:44,960 we're doing 300 00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:48,470 we did hosted two mufon symposiums for a 301 00:13:54,850 --> 00:13:51,440 few years in a row back in the 90s or 302 00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:54,860 early 2000 and people would complain you 303 00:14:00,340 --> 00:13:57,440 have stanton every year but we would do 304 00:14:03,639 --> 00:14:00,350 surveys to ask who would you like to see 305 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:03,649 at the symposium and every year stanton 306 00:14:07,870 --> 00:14:05,330 was at the top of the list so we would 307 00:14:09,250 --> 00:14:07,880 tell people well people want to see him 308 00:14:10,930 --> 00:14:09,260 he's at the top of the list in the 309 00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:10,940 survey so maybe he is saying the same 310 00:14:15,579 --> 00:14:13,220 thing every year but people want to hear 311 00:14:16,930 --> 00:14:15,589 it every year so as long as he's the top 312 00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:16,940 of the list you know we're gonna keep 313 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:18,620 bringing him back because he deserves it 314 00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:21,610 and he's great and you know he always 315 00:14:26,829 --> 00:14:25,279 especially in relation to MUFON he was 316 00:14:29,980 --> 00:14:26,839 one of the main contributors he had a 317 00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:29,990 column that he wrote for the journal for 318 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:32,270 decades I think you know every year 319 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:34,310 you've got your you're seeing an article 320 00:14:39,730 --> 00:14:37,880 in there so people loved him now when 321 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:39,740 did you actually first meet him when can 322 00:14:44,829 --> 00:14:40,970 you remember meeting him for the first 323 00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:44,839 time oh this is a pretty funny story of 324 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:46,220 course I would start to struck like 325 00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:47,570 everybody else oh and I have another 326 00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:49,670 starstruck story actually related to the 327 00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:53,480 symposium sport after that but I liked 328 00:14:58,810 --> 00:14:56,630 the first time I met him it was he was 329 00:15:03,600 --> 00:14:58,820 with Colorado MUFON still I remember and 330 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:03,610 he was doing a talk for one of the big 331 00:15:08,620 --> 00:15:06,290 and I wish I can remember the name but 332 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:08,630 essentially downtown Denver you know 333 00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:10,730 everybody's got their really cool every 334 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:13,279 town has their cool premiere book shop 335 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:15,529 you know book store that's just fun and 336 00:15:20,110 --> 00:15:17,570 has a fun feeling everything and we had 337 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:20,120 one downtown dead bird still there it's 338 00:15:24,430 --> 00:15:22,610 like two or three levels big place you 339 00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:24,440 know it has this great feel it's a 340 00:15:28,930 --> 00:15:25,940 really cool place it's almost like the 341 00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:28,940 heart at Denver you know it's been there 342 00:15:32,260 --> 00:15:30,920 forever even you know now it's been 343 00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,270 built up and Ed was really pretty 344 00:15:35,380 --> 00:15:33,920 downtown and everything but it wasn't 345 00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:35,390 always like that but this bookstore has 346 00:15:39,460 --> 00:15:37,760 always been there and so he was speaking 347 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:39,470 at the bookstore and all of us at 348 00:15:44,380 --> 00:15:41,930 Colorado MUFON came out there to support 349 00:15:47,170 --> 00:15:44,390 him and I asked him can I auto record 350 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:47,180 his talk and he said sure this is a 351 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:48,860 first time I met him but he's like how 352 00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:50,450 are you gonna do that you know I think 353 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:54,560 this was probably around 2000 and at the 354 00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:58,010 time I was using a minidisc because 355 00:16:01,210 --> 00:15:59,600 you know this is before all the digital 356 00:16:03,130 --> 00:16:01,220 technology and stuff and I showed him 357 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:03,140 I've got this mini disc player it sounds 358 00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,370 great I've got this little microphone 359 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:06,800 and he's like wow that's amazing he was 360 00:16:10,750 --> 00:16:09,200 amazed by the technology and that I 361 00:16:13,330 --> 00:16:10,760 could actually record his talk with 362 00:16:15,370 --> 00:16:13,340 these little devices so that was really 363 00:16:16,660 --> 00:16:15,380 fun I I thought that was really cute and 364 00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:16,670 everything so that was the first time I 365 00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:19,880 I had met him later on even within a 366 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:21,620 couple years you know we were doing 367 00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:23,570 these symposiums like they talked about 368 00:16:27,730 --> 00:16:25,790 and this is just another fun story of 369 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:27,740 someone else being starstruck and kind 370 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:31,370 of the importance of staunton so I send 371 00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:33,530 out press releases cuz Stanton speaking 372 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:35,300 at the symposium in Colorado in Denver 373 00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:37,610 and I got a call from CBS and they were 374 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:38,990 like hey we'd love to do some interviews 375 00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:41,390 send a reporter out there he was 376 00:16:45,310 --> 00:16:42,830 actually reporter he's like I'm gonna be 377 00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:45,320 out there and I was talking about some 378 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:47,270 of the speakers and Stephanie he kind of 379 00:16:50,110 --> 00:16:48,770 said under his breath you know he asked 380 00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:50,120 can I talk to this person or that person 381 00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:52,070 and I said sure definitely we'll arrange 382 00:16:55,150 --> 00:16:53,720 that and he said it'd be great if I 383 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:55,160 could talk to Stanton and I said well of 384 00:16:59,440 --> 00:16:56,810 course she could talk to Stan and he was 385 00:17:01,210 --> 00:16:59,450 like are you kidding I said no he was 386 00:17:03,340 --> 00:17:01,220 like Stanton the guy on TV the main guy 387 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:03,350 always talking about UFOs he's you know 388 00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,690 nuclear physicist I was like yeah he's 389 00:17:09,069 --> 00:17:07,520 like I can actually interview him and I 390 00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:09,079 was like of course you can interview 391 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:10,790 them that's the whole point that's what 392 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:12,770 you know that's what we want you to do 393 00:17:18,340 --> 00:17:15,770 and he was so floored this guy he had to 394 00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:18,350 be in this 30s but you know yeah he was 395 00:17:24,430 --> 00:17:22,880 a local CBS and he was so excited to be 396 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:24,440 able to interview Stanton 397 00:17:28,860 --> 00:17:27,410 so that just showed the reach you know 398 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:28,870 that he had and the credibility 399 00:17:35,140 --> 00:17:32,330 especially you know in the 90s and early 400 00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:35,150 2000s that was some of the worst time 401 00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:37,640 for UFOs all of the documentaries ended 402 00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:40,840 with debunking everything they had just 403 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:44,240 presented and you know it wasn't taken 404 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:46,850 very seriously but Stanton was he was 405 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:48,830 that guy that was out there he was the 406 00:17:54,130 --> 00:17:51,410 face the credible face of ufology out 407 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:54,140 there for all of us and you know he 408 00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,890 leads because he did such a great job in 409 00:18:01,900 --> 00:17:59,840 later years you know we've had a lot 410 00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:01,910 more personalities that have kind of 411 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:04,160 come forward and that are doing the 412 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:05,690 television shows and television shows 413 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:07,610 there's been more and more of them 414 00:18:11,890 --> 00:18:10,490 especially as move on you know got to be 415 00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:11,900 more popular 416 00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:15,710 but yeah he was the guy I remember him 417 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:19,550 having a conversation with him about you 418 00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:21,710 know the controversy that comes up a lot 419 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:24,500 is people that think that or just assume 420 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:26,750 that you know certain people make a ton 421 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:30,530 of money yeah when it comes to UFOs and 422 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:31,930 I brought it up and he started laughing 423 00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:36,290 so in that case he had given me you know 424 00:18:42,340 --> 00:18:40,400 a bunch of examples of why you don't 425 00:18:44,740 --> 00:18:42,350 make a lot of money or make any money 426 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:44,750 and you you got it think about this he 427 00:18:52,420 --> 00:18:48,650 gave up a career that would is a high 428 00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:52,430 high paying career to do this you know I 429 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:54,470 mean that that that's really saying 430 00:18:58,060 --> 00:18:55,490 something right there 431 00:18:59,860 --> 00:18:58,070 yeah and he was doing amazing things I 432 00:19:02,920 --> 00:18:59,870 mean a lot of what he was working on 433 00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:02,930 were like propulsion and you know 434 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:05,150 cutting edge sort of thinks so and 435 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:07,490 that's why he got into this you know for 436 00:19:14,380 --> 00:19:09,680 instance would it be possible for us to 437 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:14,390 have a little power plant nuclear power 438 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:17,410 plant on a little craft or a spacecraft 439 00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:19,910 currently it's technically illegal but 440 00:19:24,010 --> 00:19:22,550 you know not like really the United 441 00:19:25,630 --> 00:19:24,020 States cares too much about that they're 442 00:19:28,090 --> 00:19:25,640 still working on that sort of thing but 443 00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:28,100 his point was there are some they've 444 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:29,870 done this on planes and of course we 445 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:31,910 have with us on submarines but that was 446 00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:34,370 kind of a specialty of his and so he was 447 00:19:40,750 --> 00:19:36,350 very well-versed at least on the cutting 448 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:40,760 edge propulsion and power plants for 449 00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,970 that we would be able to use so he moved 450 00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:46,160 yeah from that sort of thing to 451 00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:49,520 eventually you know being the UFO guy 452 00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:52,190 you know we talked to Lee Spiegel I 453 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:53,360 think you said you're gonna have Lee 454 00:20:01,420 --> 00:19:57,170 call in but least vehicle you know when 455 00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:01,430 he organized the UN talked in the late 456 00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:03,950 70s if you look at some of those images 457 00:20:10,030 --> 00:20:07,580 you see Staunton in there you know even 458 00:20:11,980 --> 00:20:10,040 back then in the late 70s he was an 459 00:20:14,830 --> 00:20:11,990 important figure when it came to all of 460 00:20:17,970 --> 00:20:14,840 this so yeah he's he's been an important 461 00:20:20,410 --> 00:20:17,980 guy from for so long yeah I should also 462 00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,420 finish my thought here what I was saying 463 00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:23,120 about what he said about the money I 464 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:24,820 remember him saying when you know 465 00:20:29,580 --> 00:20:26,170 I don't know how many times he was on 466 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:29,590 Larry King but many many times and I 467 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:32,200 said and he said for instance he said I 468 00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:35,650 got my airfare and hotel paid for but I 469 00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:38,440 had to pay for food so not only did he 470 00:20:44,010 --> 00:20:40,360 not get paid for being on Larry King 471 00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:44,020 alive but he had to even pay for his own 472 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:46,630 food and if there is a lot of that and a 473 00:20:50,670 --> 00:20:48,190 lot of people don't realize you know 474 00:20:53,220 --> 00:20:50,680 there's it is frustrating because you 475 00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:53,230 know you hear even to this day I add the 476 00:20:57,450 --> 00:20:55,270 whole idea especially behind Roswell 477 00:21:00,510 --> 00:20:57,460 that all of these Roswell researchers 478 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:00,520 are pushing this whole concept because 479 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:02,410 they're making money off of books like 480 00:21:08,130 --> 00:21:05,110 they're making tons of money and you 481 00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:08,140 know I've been speaking for at least 12 482 00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:10,420 years every year at the Roswell event 483 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:13,000 with the premiere Roswell researchers 484 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:15,250 you know like the the San Friedman's 485 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:18,310 Kevin Randle and you know Don Schmidt 486 00:21:24,290 --> 00:21:20,530 and all those guys they are not making 487 00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:24,300 tons of money and you know one of the 488 00:21:28,980 --> 00:21:26,440 organizations have perhaps make the most 489 00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:28,990 off the whole Roswell phenomena is a 490 00:21:33,570 --> 00:21:31,750 museum but if you go to the museum I 491 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:33,580 know these people very well they're 492 00:21:38,610 --> 00:21:36,610 wonderful really cool hard workers 493 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:38,620 they're not rich you know if you go to 494 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:41,410 the museum and you're touring the museum 495 00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:45,370 you do not get the sense that you're in 496 00:21:52,740 --> 00:21:49,990 this expensive hub of you know of where 497 00:21:55,410 --> 00:21:52,750 all this money is coming in you you get 498 00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:55,420 the sense that this is kind of something 499 00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:57,160 cobbled together by a bunch of people 500 00:22:00,900 --> 00:21:58,810 who are interested in this field and 501 00:22:02,490 --> 00:22:00,910 that are keeping this going because of 502 00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:02,500 that interest and that's that's more 503 00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:05,440 accurate it's not a humongous flow of 504 00:22:10,890 --> 00:22:07,390 cash it's flowing through all of this 505 00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:10,900 stuff so um you know what up you know 506 00:22:16,050 --> 00:22:13,240 I'm just our poor guests are on the 507 00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:16,060 phone line there with our line through 508 00:22:20,820 --> 00:22:18,190 throw lines muted and I forgot to tell 509 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:20,830 at the beginning who my guests were of 510 00:22:27,750 --> 00:22:23,080 course that's all it's oh yes yeah I 511 00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:27,760 have I have a Gordon lor and old time a 512 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:30,820 researcher from NICAP way back in 1965 I 513 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:33,100 think he joined nightcap and Barry 514 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:36,090 Greenwood which has been at it forever 515 00:22:41,349 --> 00:22:38,690 since the 1960s there's the 516 00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:41,359 my guess but anyway I wanted to also say 517 00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:45,590 this if anyone has a quick story they'd 518 00:22:50,259 --> 00:22:47,769 like to call in about Stanton Friedman 519 00:22:52,299 --> 00:22:50,269 I'm gonna put the number up on the line 520 00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:52,309 here and you're welcome you're welcome 521 00:22:58,180 --> 00:22:55,190 to call in and give us that that quick 522 00:23:01,409 --> 00:22:58,190 story if you have one if not we will 523 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:01,419 take we will take calls at a later point 524 00:23:07,330 --> 00:23:05,450 in the show you know in the second part 525 00:23:09,729 --> 00:23:07,340 of the show later on and anybody could 526 00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:09,739 share their experience and unfortunately 527 00:23:13,899 --> 00:23:12,440 Lee is going to be on the train he won't 528 00:23:16,779 --> 00:23:13,909 be able to call until later on in the 529 00:23:18,909 --> 00:23:16,789 show but he did want to call in but so 530 00:23:20,739 --> 00:23:18,919 that numbers up on YouTube if anyone 531 00:23:23,619 --> 00:23:20,749 wants to call in if you're listening on 532 00:23:26,169 --> 00:23:23,629 kgr a radio then number six zero three 533 00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:26,179 nine six seven four o3o if you have a 534 00:23:30,159 --> 00:23:27,679 story about Stanton Freeman you like to 535 00:23:31,930 --> 00:23:30,169 call in otherwise we're gonna go just a 536 00:23:36,399 --> 00:23:31,940 little bit longer before I bring our our 537 00:23:40,299 --> 00:23:36,409 guests on the show so yeah all good 538 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:40,309 thoughts about Stan like you said he he 539 00:23:44,979 --> 00:23:43,369 I can't ever remember now I will tell 540 00:23:47,349 --> 00:23:44,989 you he was the very first person I asked 541 00:23:49,389 --> 00:23:47,359 to come on my brand new show in episode 542 00:23:51,609 --> 00:23:49,399 number one and he never responded I get 543 00:23:54,159 --> 00:23:51,619 that because his brand-new show but 544 00:23:58,269 --> 00:23:54,169 after I got my show going I think four 545 00:23:59,799 --> 00:23:58,279 or five in he is never once said that he 546 00:24:02,859 --> 00:23:59,809 wouldn't be on my show anytime I ever 547 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:02,869 asked him he said sure you know and so I 548 00:24:06,849 --> 00:24:04,970 was always uh yeah that's why I had him 549 00:24:09,129 --> 00:24:06,859 on you know over and over many times 550 00:24:10,810 --> 00:24:09,139 yeah that's why it was you know a 551 00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:10,820 concern when I didn't hear him answer is 552 00:24:15,219 --> 00:24:12,799 it phone this morning cuz he also almost 553 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:15,229 always answers his phone yeah or at 554 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:16,970 least gets back to you very quickly I 555 00:24:23,169 --> 00:24:19,970 mean he's really excited about this and 556 00:24:24,849 --> 00:24:23,179 you know uh and people will say well 100 557 00:24:26,649 --> 00:24:24,859 you know I know you're always talking 558 00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:26,659 about mj-12 and Dodi and all this stuff 559 00:24:30,399 --> 00:24:28,190 and that you're a skeptic of all of that 560 00:24:33,099 --> 00:24:30,409 but Stanton because I get this quite a 561 00:24:36,369 --> 00:24:33,109 bit but you know this was another unique 562 00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:36,379 thing about Stan Stanton did not hold a 563 00:24:41,710 --> 00:24:39,919 grudge or hold it against people when 564 00:24:44,739 --> 00:24:41,720 they had a different point of view even 565 00:24:45,129 --> 00:24:44,749 with like sesh stack or or Michael 566 00:24:47,950 --> 00:24:45,139 Shermer 567 00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:47,960 he loved debating those guys that was 568 00:24:52,509 --> 00:24:51,289 like his favorite thing and when I first 569 00:24:54,609 --> 00:24:52,519 started researching 570 00:24:56,049 --> 00:24:54,619 all of that stuff and started asking him 571 00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,059 about it 572 00:24:59,169 --> 00:24:57,919 years ago in fact I had an interest 573 00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:59,179 probably the first time I met him I 574 00:25:02,499 --> 00:25:00,799 asked some questions back when I was 575 00:25:05,829 --> 00:25:02,509 really trying to dig into some of that 576 00:25:08,499 --> 00:25:05,839 stuff and when I really started to find 577 00:25:10,659 --> 00:25:08,509 some stuff and disagree he's like let's 578 00:25:13,299 --> 00:25:10,669 debate let's talk about it he was so 579 00:25:14,979 --> 00:25:13,309 excited to debate and and people 580 00:25:16,479 --> 00:25:14,989 probably heard you know I've got some 581 00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:16,489 podcasts in there where we did debate 582 00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:18,769 and we got really into it on some 583 00:25:23,469 --> 00:25:20,809 different parts in fact I you know I've 584 00:25:26,469 --> 00:25:23,479 got a piece about Dodie where I 585 00:25:27,789 --> 00:25:26,479 interview him and were debating you know 586 00:25:29,139 --> 00:25:27,799 some different parts and he's sharing 587 00:25:31,869 --> 00:25:29,149 his perspective because I definitely 588 00:25:35,229 --> 00:25:31,879 wanted his perspective shared he's done 589 00:25:37,749 --> 00:25:35,239 the most work on this and he was so 590 00:25:40,060 --> 00:25:37,759 excited to debate and not only that he 591 00:25:42,129 --> 00:25:40,070 would not hold grudges he was very nice 592 00:25:44,049 --> 00:25:42,139 about it as soon as you're done with 593 00:25:46,209 --> 00:25:44,059 your conversation you know he'd be so 594 00:25:49,719 --> 00:25:46,219 happy and energized and he'd be like hey 595 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:49,729 that was a lot of fun you know he it's 596 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:51,529 so different from how most people 597 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:53,690 especially in this field are it's it's 598 00:25:58,449 --> 00:25:56,450 you know that spirit that certainly I 599 00:26:00,699 --> 00:25:58,459 try to bring to the open minds UFO forum 600 00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:00,709 where group where I'm like debate is 601 00:26:03,219 --> 00:26:01,279 fine 602 00:26:04,869 --> 00:26:03,229 I don't want everybody to have the same 603 00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:04,879 opinion it's me I would that's how we 604 00:26:08,409 --> 00:26:06,320 learn and you know it's kind of 605 00:26:09,999 --> 00:26:08,419 interesting people get so frustrated oh 606 00:26:12,129 --> 00:26:10,009 that guy doesn't believe this or that 607 00:26:14,529 --> 00:26:12,139 but nobody in this field believes the 608 00:26:16,749 --> 00:26:14,539 same stuff you and I do not agree on 609 00:26:18,339 --> 00:26:16,759 everything me and Lee or some of my 610 00:26:20,469 --> 00:26:18,349 other you know good friends in this 611 00:26:23,769 --> 00:26:20,479 field me and my girlfriend certainly do 612 00:26:26,019 --> 00:26:23,779 not agree on everything you know we all 613 00:26:28,419 --> 00:26:26,029 have our different viewpoints and that's 614 00:26:31,479 --> 00:26:28,429 okay and it's okay for us to be able to 615 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:31,489 debate and Stanton was absolutely a 616 00:26:39,369 --> 00:26:34,849 shining example of how you can disagree 617 00:26:41,499 --> 00:26:39,379 about the facts on topics that are 618 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:41,509 important like this but you can debate 619 00:26:46,389 --> 00:26:44,450 them and talk about them and not have to 620 00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:46,399 hold a grudge or demonize each other I 621 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:49,849 think poorly of one another because of 622 00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:52,369 your differences in opinions well I 623 00:26:56,739 --> 00:26:55,279 think you know we had a convert you and 624 00:26:59,319 --> 00:26:56,749 I had our little conversation earlier 625 00:27:02,680 --> 00:26:59,329 and a good example of him being such a 626 00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:02,690 gentleman is the Jeremy Korbel bob lazar 627 00:27:09,690 --> 00:27:05,560 I and him him his debate 628 00:27:12,690 --> 00:27:09,700 how he just maintained this you know he 629 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:12,700 stature and he was very very he was a 630 00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:15,970 gentleman and I know that you know when 631 00:27:20,550 --> 00:27:18,310 talking to Seth Shostak I tried to 632 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:20,560 actually set up a second debate with 633 00:27:24,390 --> 00:27:22,510 Stanton in him and he wouldn't do it and 634 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:24,400 the reason he wouldn't do it because I 635 00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:26,350 don't think he fared too well and she 636 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:29,230 self is a bright man very bright but I 637 00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:30,700 don't think in that particular case he 638 00:27:34,770 --> 00:27:32,980 fared too well in their debate I think 639 00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:34,780 Stan Stan made a lot of really excellent 640 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:37,480 points that right and why he didn't want 641 00:27:41,250 --> 00:27:38,290 to come back 642 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:41,260 summer stands great points is hey Seth I 643 00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:43,150 gave you that book yeah that's right you 644 00:27:48,210 --> 00:27:44,710 made the point did you read it 645 00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:48,220 you know my god what did you say was on 646 00:27:52,410 --> 00:27:51,070 my bedside table right correctly yeah 647 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:52,420 yeah I never read it 648 00:27:57,870 --> 00:27:55,170 so I mean yet that's why he would Ari 649 00:27:59,820 --> 00:27:57,880 Seth obviously did not educate himself 650 00:28:02,960 --> 00:27:59,830 maybe he didn't feel he at the time or 651 00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:02,970 he obviously didn't prioritize it 652 00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:06,160 and so I you know Stanton always had a 653 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:07,630 great argument how can you debate on 654 00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:08,770 these points if you're not even 655 00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:10,870 educating yourself on them which is a 656 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:13,750 great point to make yeah yeah well a 657 00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:16,090 hundred thank you so much for joining me 658 00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:18,220 in this little tribute for our good 659 00:28:21,860 --> 00:28:18,760 friends 660 00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:21,870 Stanton you'll be sorely missed wony 661 00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:24,640 he'll be greatly greatly missed 662 00:28:28,530 --> 00:28:26,740 I mean he's a unique special individual 663 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:28,540 and you know we're not gonna have 664 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:31,450 anybody like him again I yeah I you know 665 00:28:34,260 --> 00:28:33,010 regardless of what field he would have 666 00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:34,270 been in I think he would have been a 667 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:36,580 unique and special addition to that 668 00:28:41,070 --> 00:28:39,010 field so we are very lucky to have him 669 00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:41,080 and you know we're very lucky especially 670 00:28:45,450 --> 00:28:43,030 you and I to spend so much time with him 671 00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:45,460 on and off the air that's right 672 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:47,920 Alejandro thank you so much my pleasure 673 00:28:50,910 --> 00:28:48,610 thank you 674 00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:50,920 alright I'll talk to you next week talk 675 00:28:56,790 --> 00:28:53,830 to you later all right so our guests of 676 00:29:00,510 --> 00:28:56,800 this evening we have both Gordon lor and 677 00:29:01,950 --> 00:29:00,520 Barry Greenwood and I'm gonna just bring 678 00:29:06,030 --> 00:29:01,960 them on right now and we'll talk about 679 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:06,040 their long and very great interesting 680 00:29:15,570 --> 00:29:08,830 backgrounds hey Gordon hey Barry how are 681 00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:15,580 you I'm glad you said Gordon here 682 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:16,960 because we got to figure out who is who 683 00:29:23,999 --> 00:29:19,330 at this point you're both on the phone 684 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:24,009 yeah and so I wanted to welcome both of 685 00:29:29,549 --> 00:29:26,110 you and we'll start with you Gordon 686 00:29:32,129 --> 00:29:29,559 Gordon can you um in a nutshell if you 687 00:29:33,509 --> 00:29:32,139 would for our listening audience give 688 00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:33,519 your background if you would and how you 689 00:29:37,379 --> 00:29:35,769 got interested in this field I I've 690 00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:37,389 learned all about that I think it's 691 00:29:42,479 --> 00:29:38,169 pretty interesting 692 00:29:42,899 --> 00:29:42,489 and then Barry it's your turn sure okay 693 00:29:46,590 --> 00:29:42,909 yeah 694 00:29:48,899 --> 00:29:46,600 Gordon here I'm not sure I can do it in 695 00:29:51,570 --> 00:29:48,909 a nutshell but what happened was that I 696 00:29:56,430 --> 00:29:51,580 was a folk song singer back in 697 00:30:01,889 --> 00:29:56,440 Washington DC in the early 1960s and in 698 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:01,899 six 1965 I got the unicorn cafe back 699 00:30:07,289 --> 00:30:04,450 there doing the folk song craze as a 700 00:30:12,210 --> 00:30:07,299 matter of fact peter Yarrow of the Peter 701 00:30:15,299 --> 00:30:12,220 Paul and Mary trio applauded me and one 702 00:30:19,310 --> 00:30:15,309 of the songs I say and I'm Richard Hall 703 00:30:22,229 --> 00:30:19,320 who was the assistant director of NICAP 704 00:30:25,979 --> 00:30:22,239 at that time was there in the audience 705 00:30:29,549 --> 00:30:25,989 and he invited me back to his apartment 706 00:30:31,529 --> 00:30:29,559 and and by the end of the evening I 707 00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:31,539 played some folk songs for him and by 708 00:30:37,889 --> 00:30:35,470 the end of the evening I'd been hired as 709 00:30:40,830 --> 00:30:37,899 a staff member for Nyko 710 00:30:43,739 --> 00:30:40,840 now I had previously read the first two 711 00:30:48,659 --> 00:30:43,749 books by major Don Lee Kehoe who wrote 712 00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:48,669 the first book ever on the reel of 713 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:50,710 fennec the Flying Saucer phenomena 714 00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:53,289 called the flying saucers are real as 715 00:30:59,729 --> 00:30:57,129 well as the first article ever on it 716 00:31:03,739 --> 00:30:59,739 understand that article I think it was a 717 00:31:07,019 --> 00:31:03,749 true magazine but I'm not sure it is 718 00:31:10,049 --> 00:31:07,029 recognized as being what are the three 719 00:31:13,289 --> 00:31:10,059 or four most widely read articles in the 720 00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:13,299 history of American publishing society 721 00:31:21,479 --> 00:31:18,220 long wondered about my my credentials 722 00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:21,489 no no um also let's talk about you know 723 00:31:31,109 --> 00:31:26,409 some UFO sightings - yeah I had two of 724 00:31:33,420 --> 00:31:31,119 them which is how I really got started 725 00:31:37,980 --> 00:31:33,430 in reading Laura more 726 00:31:41,010 --> 00:31:37,990 nycap and the first one was I had three 727 00:31:42,930 --> 00:31:41,020 actually but they're all in the book do 728 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:42,940 you want me to scribe them to you yeah 729 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:45,490 just just again you know of course we 730 00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:47,530 got to bring Barry on as well but yeah 731 00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:50,920 go ahead if you would yeah well I'll try 732 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:53,110 to make it as short as a ten but the 733 00:32:00,510 --> 00:31:57,010 first two I was all by a half mile long 734 00:32:03,450 --> 00:32:00,520 pier jutting out into the Chesapeake Bay 735 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:03,460 where I lived at the time when I solved 736 00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:06,970 it it was right across the way from the 737 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:09,280 Patuxent Naval Air Station where the 738 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:11,110 astronauts still trained to this day 739 00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:14,890 this is the summer 1955 I saw this huge 740 00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:18,640 object that came in out of the bay and 741 00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:22,360 then went down into the water and came 742 00:32:27,870 --> 00:32:25,720 back up and flew over the pier where I 743 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:27,880 was standing and I was alone of the 744 00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:30,970 period was late at night and unloaded a 745 00:32:36,810 --> 00:32:34,270 bunch of water all over me and then flew 746 00:32:39,690 --> 00:32:36,820 away now I checked at the Patuxent Naval 747 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:39,700 Air Station the next day and they said 748 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:41,970 they had nothing like that up and flying 749 00:32:54,450 --> 00:32:45,570 but the second report that I had was in 750 00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:54,460 April of 1960 that no April 1959 just 751 00:33:01,410 --> 00:32:56,710 before I was the enter of the army and I 752 00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:01,420 was coming down from my music lessons of 753 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:03,550 the Peabody Conservatory American huh 754 00:33:10,650 --> 00:33:08,290 and in Baltimore and I having to see 755 00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:10,660 this large object that was in the sky 756 00:33:15,570 --> 00:33:13,840 and there hovered over a barn and then 757 00:33:18,660 --> 00:33:15,580 while it was hovering over a barn 758 00:33:21,650 --> 00:33:18,670 another object came and joined it then 759 00:33:24,210 --> 00:33:21,660 the two objects made lightning-quick 760 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:24,220 traverses the course described as flying 761 00:33:30,380 --> 00:33:27,250 back and forth it almost like they were 762 00:33:34,890 --> 00:33:30,390 they were playing celestial pinball or 763 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:34,900 something and then it stopped again and 764 00:33:40,890 --> 00:33:37,750 then over another barn on the left side 765 00:33:43,050 --> 00:33:40,900 of the of the road and then the smaller 766 00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:43,060 object went up and seemed to merge with 767 00:33:46,510 --> 00:33:45,760 the larger what I would call a mother 768 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:46,520 object 769 00:33:53,049 --> 00:33:49,610 and then the third sighting I had was 770 00:33:55,419 --> 00:33:53,059 just before I entered the army in 1959 771 00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:55,429 which I saw this large cigar shaped 772 00:34:01,510 --> 00:33:59,120 object over the Patuxent River and that 773 00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:01,520 was joined by three other objects and 774 00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:03,380 then all of the objects took off 775 00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:07,340 straight up into the air and disappeared 776 00:34:14,379 --> 00:34:11,119 disappeared incredible speeds so now 777 00:34:16,750 --> 00:34:14,389 it's very stern yeah right all right you 778 00:34:18,909 --> 00:34:16,760 heard you heard him Barry your 779 00:34:20,590 --> 00:34:18,919 background please and you you and I are 780 00:34:23,290 --> 00:34:20,600 not really that far apart and I do want 781 00:34:25,869 --> 00:34:23,300 to say that eventually I'm gonna we'll 782 00:34:28,330 --> 00:34:25,879 do the show and together I'll come down 783 00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:28,340 him to where you live and we'll we'll do 784 00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:30,700 a video of YouTube and then audio 785 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:33,830 podcasts together at some point well 786 00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,169 yeah your next town over from me where 787 00:34:40,899 --> 00:34:38,240 you work I understand right a lot of the 788 00:34:44,379 --> 00:34:40,909 time yes mm-hmm yeah once a week right 789 00:34:46,540 --> 00:34:44,389 well there's first sighting reports go I 790 00:34:49,389 --> 00:34:46,550 can't really attribute my interest to 791 00:34:52,359 --> 00:34:49,399 any particular UFO sightings I've seen 792 00:34:55,210 --> 00:34:52,369 lights in the sky and they're odd but 793 00:34:58,300 --> 00:34:55,220 certainly nothing dramatic as Gordon 794 00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:58,310 describes but it seemed like I had a 795 00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:01,520 hardwired interest in space mysteries 796 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:04,070 and space travel I was growing up during 797 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:06,710 the mercury era and the first rocket 798 00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:09,770 launches of men into space and I was 799 00:35:17,250 --> 00:35:13,280 fascinated with that but UFOs really 800 00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:17,260 didn't touch on me until about 1964 when 801 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:20,240 there was a widely reported incident at 802 00:35:25,090 --> 00:35:23,090 Socorro New Mexico mm-hmm and it hit the 803 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:25,100 papers and they looked at it and they 804 00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:28,570 said well a police officer sees a 805 00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:32,140 egg-shaped object with men around it and 806 00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:35,060 and it's treated in the press like a 807 00:35:40,359 --> 00:35:36,830 very serious incident and I thought 808 00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:40,369 either for the first time there were 809 00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:44,240 credible individuals involved with the 810 00:35:49,420 --> 00:35:46,960 subject I that was too young then they 811 00:35:51,609 --> 00:35:49,430 couldn't remember anything much from the 812 00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:51,619 50s but that was the first really 813 00:35:59,530 --> 00:35:57,280 impactful story on me so from then on I 814 00:36:02,500 --> 00:35:59,540 felt I had to look in 815 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:02,510 this more and they assembled information 816 00:36:07,660 --> 00:36:05,690 on it and even though it was the sixties 817 00:36:11,290 --> 00:36:07,670 where there was a very large wave of 818 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:11,300 sightings in the middle of the decade it 819 00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:13,330 wasn't always easy to find information 820 00:36:18,670 --> 00:36:16,160 especially older information on it so I 821 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:18,680 hit libraries and and wherever I could 822 00:36:28,750 --> 00:36:23,930 do bone up on the subject and over time 823 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:28,760 I fell it's not so easy to find material 824 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:30,530 on this I have to do something about 825 00:36:36,940 --> 00:36:34,010 that and I I thought of collecting the 826 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:36,950 literature on the subject and putting it 827 00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:39,250 under one umbrella which meant my home 828 00:36:47,050 --> 00:36:43,190 and trying to figure this out so that's 829 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:47,060 what got me started into not only 830 00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:49,700 inquiries into the subject but trying to 831 00:36:57,460 --> 00:36:55,190 document much of it and 1964 the socorro 832 00:37:00,660 --> 00:36:57,470 that was a that was definitely one to 833 00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:00,670 get anyone started on the subject 834 00:37:07,180 --> 00:37:03,440 ray-ray Stanford listens to the show he 835 00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:07,190 may be listening tonight and um he was 836 00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:09,320 instrumental in getting that story out 837 00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:12,320 he was there right after and yeah that 838 00:37:17,950 --> 00:37:14,780 is that is one of the top stories I 839 00:37:20,290 --> 00:37:17,960 think and I'm sure sparked a lot of 840 00:37:23,770 --> 00:37:20,300 people's interest like you said such a 841 00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:23,780 credible witness someone that didn't 842 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:25,760 want to be a witness obviously it was 843 00:37:36,250 --> 00:37:32,330 very obvious yeah to the subject after 844 00:37:38,770 --> 00:37:36,260 us occur or 6566 there are huge waves 845 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:38,780 and and it really brought the subject 846 00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:40,970 into the forefront right Gordon Gordon 847 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:44,000 did you want to say something we trying 848 00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:47,170 to dissect motion there completely 849 00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:50,510 because I have a full chapter in my book 850 00:37:56,170 --> 00:37:52,900 flying saucers from beyond the earth 851 00:37:59,680 --> 00:37:56,180 about the Socorro case and that was one 852 00:38:03,300 --> 00:37:59,690 case that nature Keough then along with 853 00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:03,310 the Barney and Betty hill case of 1961 854 00:38:09,340 --> 00:38:07,670 okay and one was an abduction case and 855 00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:09,350 the other was seeing these creatures 856 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:12,180 beside this saucer that 857 00:38:18,799 --> 00:38:16,170 at least the coil policeman so that was 858 00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:18,809 very impressive even keel was impressed 859 00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,180 by it but he didn't want the word to get 860 00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:23,520 out about these cases because he was 861 00:38:28,970 --> 00:38:26,910 trying so hard to try to get Congress to 862 00:38:32,420 --> 00:38:28,980 take a serious interest in the subject 863 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:32,430 hmm wow that's interesting 864 00:38:41,329 --> 00:38:36,690 so Barry going back to you just 865 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:41,339 mentioned it was active in 1965 or now I 866 00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:44,250 don't know if you were always in New 867 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:46,950 England like you are now but I do recall 868 00:38:53,180 --> 00:38:49,890 a bit a little bit younger than you and 869 00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:53,190 I but I do recall in like the mid-60s 870 00:38:57,140 --> 00:38:55,440 that there was kind of something going 871 00:39:01,870 --> 00:38:57,150 on in New England I want to I want to 872 00:39:08,059 --> 00:39:01,880 call it a flap right he accurate yes yes 873 00:39:11,420 --> 00:39:08,069 my recollection was I started picking up 874 00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:11,430 several newspapers each day at the time 875 00:39:17,329 --> 00:39:14,460 to see if this topic was being covered 876 00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:17,339 in more detail and what I was able to 877 00:39:23,870 --> 00:39:21,150 find prior to that and I ran across in 878 00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:23,880 January of all times usually winters not 879 00:39:29,809 --> 00:39:27,000 a good time for UFO sightings but there 880 00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:29,819 was an outbreak of reports from Virginia 881 00:39:35,660 --> 00:39:32,640 and it was quite large it went on for 882 00:39:39,740 --> 00:39:35,670 several weeks the wire service was only 883 00:39:42,579 --> 00:39:39,750 touched on it in spurts but as I found 884 00:39:46,339 --> 00:39:42,589 out later it was a very widespread 885 00:39:48,799 --> 00:39:46,349 sighting flap and that seemed to 886 00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:48,809 generate more interest during that year 887 00:39:53,839 --> 00:39:50,670 so that I think when June and July 888 00:39:57,740 --> 00:39:53,849 rolled around the New England had an 889 00:40:00,620 --> 00:39:57,750 outbreak of reports and in conjunction 890 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:00,630 with reports around the world but they 891 00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:03,210 were particularly focused in 892 00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:05,400 Massachusetts Rhode Island New Hampshire 893 00:40:11,059 --> 00:40:07,980 and and and they were covered by the 894 00:40:13,309 --> 00:40:11,069 local press now I'm gonna I'm gonna ask 895 00:40:17,569 --> 00:40:13,319 up first you and then I'm gonna ask 896 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:17,579 Gordon this story it's because I know of 897 00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:21,210 a situation in Massachusetts where they 898 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:24,089 saw a triangle early on a triangle UFO 899 00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:26,130 so very first to you 900 00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:28,470 when is the first time you ever heard of 901 00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:31,950 that configuration as far as a UFO and a 902 00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:36,720 triangular form triangular I probably 903 00:40:42,859 --> 00:40:39,569 heard of the shape going way back even 904 00:40:45,499 --> 00:40:42,869 into the 50s but I might be pressed 905 00:40:48,259 --> 00:40:45,509 right now to pick a particular incident 906 00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:48,269 I recall hearing about all sorts of 907 00:40:54,589 --> 00:40:51,470 shapes being spotted there was one in 908 00:40:58,910 --> 00:40:54,599 Brockton mass back in this meet see it 909 00:41:02,630 --> 00:40:58,920 was early 80s or so an object shaped 910 00:41:05,509 --> 00:41:02,640 like a home plate in baseball was seen 911 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:05,519 by two reporters right talked about on 912 00:41:09,259 --> 00:41:07,410 the news yeah that's right there they 913 00:41:11,839 --> 00:41:09,269 were both together the reporters were 914 00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:11,849 together they were I don't know I want 915 00:41:15,259 --> 00:41:14,220 to say not coming from a bar or 916 00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:15,269 something but they were coming from 917 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:17,390 somewhere I do remember that story yes 918 00:41:21,950 --> 00:41:20,130 yeah really picture of it there was a 919 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:21,960 picture of it right like the home plate 920 00:41:26,479 --> 00:41:24,450 for sure yeah that's and yes it was and 921 00:41:28,339 --> 00:41:26,489 it was in the Brockton paper too and it 922 00:41:29,749 --> 00:41:28,349 got a lot of attention for them at the 923 00:41:32,089 --> 00:41:29,759 time not all of it 924 00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:32,099 wanted I guess because as usual there 925 00:41:37,999 --> 00:41:35,430 was ridicule from some quarters but the 926 00:41:39,979 --> 00:41:38,009 credibility of the guys was unquestioned 927 00:41:43,999 --> 00:41:39,989 they were very serious about it mm-hmm 928 00:41:46,219 --> 00:41:44,009 and Gordon what about what about you 929 00:41:48,529 --> 00:41:46,229 have you do you recall did you ever hear 930 00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:48,539 when you were involved I know you were 931 00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:50,400 involved early on what NICAP did you 932 00:41:59,900 --> 00:41:55,049 ever hear of a triangular form okay oh 933 00:42:01,489 --> 00:41:59,910 yes yeah yeah even that early and that 934 00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:01,499 there have been many triangular form 935 00:42:09,769 --> 00:42:05,640 sightings I can't I can't tell you all 936 00:42:12,829 --> 00:42:09,779 hand details of many of them because my 937 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:12,839 elderly memory isn't is not what he used 938 00:42:19,130 --> 00:42:14,609 to be but yeah I'm sure they were 939 00:42:22,969 --> 00:42:19,140 playing yeah but I didn't want to also 940 00:42:25,219 --> 00:42:22,979 recommend Barry's more clear intent 941 00:42:27,259 --> 00:42:25,229 which he wrote was Larry Fawcett called 942 00:42:29,989 --> 00:42:27,269 the government cover-up of the UFO 943 00:42:32,569 --> 00:42:29,999 experience which Mary's doing a 944 00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:32,579 wonderful job of archiving the UFO topic 945 00:42:38,809 --> 00:42:35,369 as well so I just wanted to get that in 946 00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:38,819 but yes Thank You Gordon they're shaped 947 00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:39,780 cases 948 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:42,720 yeah the reason the reason I was 949 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:46,770 basically bringing that up to to both of 950 00:42:50,450 --> 00:42:48,450 you is because you know a lot of people 951 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:50,460 will say today when the topic of 952 00:42:54,830 --> 00:42:52,410 triangle UFOs comes up they'll say well 953 00:42:59,090 --> 00:42:54,840 it's a most likely a secret government 954 00:43:01,880 --> 00:42:59,100 project and you know but you have to 955 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:01,890 discount that when you go back to the 956 00:43:06,980 --> 00:43:03,930 decades back because the technology 957 00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:06,990 obviously hasn't hasn't shown it's well 958 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:10,980 I I'll say this about it I don't recall 959 00:43:17,390 --> 00:43:14,930 it being a dominant theme back then hmm 960 00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:17,400 yeah I wasn't around in the 50s but the 961 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:21,860 60s I recall flying saucers flying discs 962 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:24,210 formations of objects and all they were 963 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:26,970 generally egg-shaped a roundish or disc 964 00:43:35,470 --> 00:43:29,730 shaped triangles were rather scarce 965 00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:35,480 moran till much later right yeah right 966 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:40,110 so re gordon so to you talk a little bit 967 00:43:44,570 --> 00:43:41,730 about what it was like being part of 968 00:43:46,990 --> 00:43:44,580 nightcap and and first of all what is 969 00:43:49,330 --> 00:43:47,000 nightcap stand for for the new listener 970 00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:49,340 it stands for the National 971 00:43:54,770 --> 00:43:51,630 investigations committee on aerial 972 00:43:57,110 --> 00:43:54,780 phenomena and it was a co-founded by 973 00:43:59,560 --> 00:43:57,120 major Donnelly Kehoe wrote the first 974 00:44:05,030 --> 00:43:59,570 article in the first book on the subject 975 00:44:09,740 --> 00:44:05,040 in late 1956 and then he took over as 976 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:09,750 the director of nightcap and and in 977 00:44:18,050 --> 00:44:13,650 January of 1957 and remained in that 978 00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:18,060 position until I think we were ousted by 979 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:22,470 a CIA influences at the end of 1969 at 980 00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:25,010 least Kehoe and I were summarily fired 981 00:44:32,420 --> 00:44:29,900 back to then well and so that's pretty 982 00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:32,430 that's pretty much it as far as that 983 00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:36,300 particular situation goes you know now 984 00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:38,640 when that high degree is go ahead Rocio 985 00:44:46,510 --> 00:44:42,510 and also I like to mention dr. James E 986 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:46,520 McDonald to UM ranked lowest and then 987 00:44:53,180 --> 00:44:49,050 McDonald was certainly he gave up a 988 00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:53,190 lucrative career to pretty much so 989 00:45:01,400 --> 00:44:57,510 hiko to become a real real icon and the 990 00:45:05,210 --> 00:45:01,410 UFO subject as well yeah that was a sad 991 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:05,220 day when he had early passing I know I 992 00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:06,050 know 993 00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:09,569 unfortunately he and I guess the bipolar 994 00:45:18,730 --> 00:45:11,640 problem and committed suicide 995 00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:18,740 and ruffles excellent book firestorm 996 00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:24,569 tells a story of MacDonald and if I'm 997 00:45:30,290 --> 00:45:26,220 sure it's still being sold out there 998 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:30,300 somewhere yes I had um Alison her 999 00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:32,730 daughter on the show what an interesting 1000 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:34,859 family they have and she was telling 1001 00:45:38,809 --> 00:45:36,810 stories about growing up and you know 1002 00:45:41,180 --> 00:45:38,819 answering the phone and up that's for 1003 00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:41,190 you mom you know someone was talking 1004 00:45:46,970 --> 00:45:44,220 about aliens in their backyard I think I 1005 00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:46,980 spent many a day at her beautiful home 1006 00:45:53,180 --> 00:45:50,520 in Pasadena California helping her with 1007 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:53,190 the Jim McDonald book Jim McDonald was 1008 00:46:00,140 --> 00:45:55,490 very good friend to myself and 1009 00:46:02,780 --> 00:46:00,150 particularly uh they call I don't think 1010 00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:02,790 he ho was in contact with him very much 1011 00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:07,740 but he had great respect and whatnot for 1012 00:46:13,099 --> 00:46:11,220 McDonald matter of fact McDonald wrote 1013 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:13,109 the introduction to our project grudge 1014 00:46:18,589 --> 00:46:15,690 and blue book report first time I think 1015 00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:18,599 the Freedom of Information Act was ever 1016 00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:25,980 used to in a UFO context interesting so 1017 00:46:32,089 --> 00:46:28,500 while I have you that I'm speaking with 1018 00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:32,099 you right now what happened after you 1019 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:35,250 were fired what did you do did you still 1020 00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:37,290 stay interested in the field or did that 1021 00:46:46,190 --> 00:46:41,040 tarnish it well it tarnished it a little 1022 00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,200 bit but I recovered Oh a few of it a few 1023 00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,240 months later and started my own 1024 00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:50,880 organization called the youth UFO 1025 00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:54,800 research associates you for and and 1026 00:47:01,040 --> 00:46:57,599 Barry Green was kind enough to say that 1027 00:47:04,609 --> 00:47:01,050 he had every copy of youthful for the 1028 00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:04,619 next ten years and scandal men and miss 1029 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:06,540 keep them keeping them for 1030 00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:10,650 future research by UFO researchers and 1031 00:47:20,210 --> 00:47:13,740 investigators which I was very grateful 1032 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:20,220 for well interesting and so a lot has 1033 00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:22,770 changed I guess this is a question for 1034 00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:25,680 both of you that I'm going to ask a lot 1035 00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:30,180 has changed I think in this field just 1036 00:47:35,870 --> 00:47:33,540 over the last year since some what do 1037 00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:35,880 you both think about one at a time but 1038 00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:38,310 what do you think about the Pentagon 1039 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:41,880 actually admitting their research into 1040 00:47:47,570 --> 00:47:45,690 the UFO topic you mean the 80 IP 1041 00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:47,580 business yeah yeah what do you think of 1042 00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:50,880 that yeah it's an interesting 1043 00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:54,960 development there have been many many 1044 00:48:01,540 --> 00:47:58,290 false alarms in the past about large UFO 1045 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:01,550 revelations from government mm-hmm so I 1046 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:04,530 approach this the same way with a bit of 1047 00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:07,650 caution as to where the information was 1048 00:48:13,850 --> 00:48:11,250 coming from and and where it might be 1049 00:48:16,070 --> 00:48:13,860 going it I mean on the surface it seems 1050 00:48:18,970 --> 00:48:16,080 credible because you had a guy who was 1051 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:18,980 probably involved with this organization 1052 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:23,850 inside Louie Elizondo and and you had 1053 00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:28,370 several videos involving Navy personnel 1054 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:32,460 spotting strange objects and all and new 1055 00:48:37,460 --> 00:48:35,610 york times covered it the times 1056 00:48:40,460 --> 00:48:37,470 historically has been very skeptical 1057 00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:40,470 about ufos so it was rather interesting 1058 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:42,960 that they would choose that topic at 1059 00:48:49,940 --> 00:48:46,890 that time it suggested that this was a 1060 00:48:51,830 --> 00:48:49,950 very credible story and it seems like it 1061 00:48:54,110 --> 00:48:51,840 but there are also questions that have 1062 00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:54,120 to be asked about these developments 1063 00:49:00,970 --> 00:48:57,900 because i'm still not satisfied as to 1064 00:49:03,710 --> 00:49:00,980 the provenance of the story that was a 1065 00:49:08,330 --> 00:49:03,720 important thing for me when I had done 1066 00:49:10,370 --> 00:49:08,340 clear intent in 1984 where we were 1067 00:49:13,370 --> 00:49:10,380 gathering documents from government 1068 00:49:17,810 --> 00:49:13,380 agencies and and we had to assure the 1069 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:17,820 public that these were not false papers 1070 00:49:22,819 --> 00:49:19,890 from whoever if we in 1071 00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:22,829 assisted on cover letters and in a clear 1072 00:49:29,779 --> 00:49:25,680 line of succession for where these 1073 00:49:33,049 --> 00:49:29,789 things came from in in the case of AAT 1074 00:49:36,049 --> 00:49:33,059 IP and all if there's some line of 1075 00:49:41,569 --> 00:49:36,059 succession but it's it's broken 1076 00:49:44,269 --> 00:49:41,579 there's still things unsaid like the the 1077 00:49:46,609 --> 00:49:44,279 FOIA requests that were put in for these 1078 00:49:51,980 --> 00:49:46,619 and had them release but we're not clear 1079 00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:51,990 on how far back they go into the agency 1080 00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:55,049 and and why the decisions were made to 1081 00:49:59,839 --> 00:49:57,690 release those and several of the films 1082 00:50:02,180 --> 00:49:59,849 seem to have been out prior to the time 1083 00:50:04,970 --> 00:50:02,190 when for your requests were made so I 1084 00:50:07,609 --> 00:50:04,980 have questions about that they turned up 1085 00:50:12,460 --> 00:50:07,619 on websites when overseas I understand 1086 00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:12,470 Germany yeah yeah and then the paperwork 1087 00:50:20,029 --> 00:50:15,839 official documents on this I think one 1088 00:50:24,319 --> 00:50:20,039 was really 1910 it's called the D and 1089 00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:24,329 Brian right yeah and there was an 1090 00:50:30,140 --> 00:50:26,640 executive summary that was issued which 1091 00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:30,150 again seems interesting on the surface 1092 00:50:35,539 --> 00:50:33,390 but it lacked that cover story the cover 1093 00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,549 letter that we we always wanted for 1094 00:50:40,690 --> 00:50:37,920 these documents and I'd really like to 1095 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:40,700 know where these things came from first 1096 00:50:46,609 --> 00:50:44,130 before having a much confidence in them 1097 00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:46,619 now these folks are going to have a 1098 00:50:54,620 --> 00:50:51,089 chance to give their case who's got 1099 00:50:56,359 --> 00:50:54,630 who's got the train that's Gordon that's 1100 00:51:02,299 --> 00:50:56,369 Gordon Gordon can hitch a mute on your 1101 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:02,309 phone please for a minute I thought that 1102 00:51:07,490 --> 00:51:03,930 I thought that was like a lunch break or 1103 00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:07,500 something Wow the whistle yeah Wow yeah 1104 00:51:10,940 --> 00:51:08,910 that was interesting anyway that this 1105 00:51:11,299 --> 00:51:10,950 series is coming on at the end of the 1106 00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:11,309 month 1107 00:51:15,859 --> 00:51:12,480 yes we're they're going to give their 1108 00:51:17,150 --> 00:51:15,869 case for all of this developing and now 1109 00:51:19,789 --> 00:51:17,160 they look forward to it 1110 00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:19,799 with two open eyes well I'll tell you I 1111 00:51:29,839 --> 00:51:25,920 am helped out the history that when you 1112 00:51:32,809 --> 00:51:29,849 get yeah so Gordon just one minute 1113 00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:32,819 so I I help out the the History Channel 1114 00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:33,660 a little bit I'm gonna 1115 00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:35,280 help them promote this and the producer 1116 00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:36,750 that's going to be on the show and 1117 00:51:44,420 --> 00:51:41,119 hopefully Lu Elizondo will be on in 1118 00:51:47,390 --> 00:51:44,430 within a few months attempting to do 1119 00:51:50,359 --> 00:51:47,400 that and I would like to be able to ask 1120 00:51:51,950 --> 00:51:50,369 him those hard questions because uh you 1121 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:51,960 know I get a lot of email from a lot of 1122 00:51:57,380 --> 00:51:55,170 people and on this and I really would 1123 00:52:00,349 --> 00:51:57,390 like to know that we're not being led 1124 00:52:02,420 --> 00:52:00,359 down some path but I was also getting to 1125 00:52:05,809 --> 00:52:02,430 the point where the History Channel has 1126 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:05,819 given me a screener login and all that 1127 00:52:11,900 --> 00:52:08,690 so I watched the first episode of 1128 00:52:14,450 --> 00:52:11,910 unidentified and it's really the best 1129 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:14,460 show that I've actually seen on UFOs on 1130 00:52:18,410 --> 00:52:16,650 TV I think I was really really happy 1131 00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:18,420 after I watched it I mean that it was so 1132 00:52:23,839 --> 00:52:20,760 well done it's just extremely well done 1133 00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:23,849 and it's it's fascinating them the shows 1134 00:52:29,410 --> 00:52:25,049 really good I think it's going to be 1135 00:52:39,019 --> 00:52:33,109 not again but is that the one that Tom 1136 00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:39,029 DeLonge of the bling was was excited 1137 00:52:45,549 --> 00:52:39,710 about 1138 00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:45,559 well you identified inside America's UFO 1139 00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:48,960 investigation yeah but you can take K 1140 00:52:52,910 --> 00:52:50,760 you can sort of take Tom DeLonge out of 1141 00:52:55,039 --> 00:52:52,920 the picture a little bit you know I mean 1142 00:52:58,279 --> 00:52:55,049 he is yes he is instrumental and a lot 1143 00:53:00,200 --> 00:52:58,289 of things but he is in the in the story 1144 00:53:02,839 --> 00:53:00,210 just a little bit here and there he's on 1145 00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:02,849 the show just a little bit but but he 1146 00:53:12,019 --> 00:53:07,140 also he you know because of the issue 1147 00:53:14,059 --> 00:53:12,029 that he had on an interview if that 1148 00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:14,069 didn't go well he's kind of kept in the 1149 00:53:19,490 --> 00:53:15,839 with Joe Rogan he's kind of kept in the 1150 00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:19,500 background a little bit so but ya know 1151 00:53:24,260 --> 00:53:21,510 we are gonna go to break and how the 1152 00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,270 breaks gonna work here is if you two 1153 00:53:28,250 --> 00:53:26,640 gentlemen could mute your mute your 1154 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:28,260 phone for a few minutes I'm going to 1155 00:53:32,690 --> 00:53:31,170 play that clip you you gentlemen will 1156 00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:32,700 not be able to hear the clip at all 1157 00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:34,529 that's why I'm gonna ask you to meet 1158 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:35,910 your phone's until you hear me talk 1159 00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:37,770 again but we're gonna go to break right 1160 00:53:44,420 --> 00:53:41,520 now so over at kgr a radio thank you so 1161 00:53:49,220 --> 00:53:44,430 much and hang in we'll be right back 1162 00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:51,720 we're clear Barton we've got four 1163 00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:53,590 minutes in this break four minutes okay 1164 00:53:57,390 --> 00:53:55,210 I'm gonna play the clip so you guys go 1165 00:53:59,490 --> 00:53:57,400 ahead and mute and this clip what I 1166 00:54:03,810 --> 00:53:59,500 wanted to to do to give a little bit of 1167 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:03,820 an intro is Stanton Friedman 1168 00:54:11,010 --> 00:54:06,130 I called him right before I did an April 1169 00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:11,020 Fool's website joke in the UFO field so 1170 00:54:17,250 --> 00:54:15,730 this is the clip so take a listen to it 1171 00:54:20,070 --> 00:54:17,260 it's pretty funny actually 1172 00:54:22,890 --> 00:54:20,080 I asked up Stanton to give me a April 1173 00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:22,900 Fool's show a little clip and this is 1174 00:54:25,980 --> 00:54:23,440 what he did 1175 00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:25,990 hi Stan how you doing thanks for coming 1176 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:28,480 back on the show well I'm glad to be on 1177 00:54:32,670 --> 00:54:30,250 I just want to make sure everybody 1178 00:54:36,270 --> 00:54:32,680 realizes but yeah there really aren't 1179 00:54:39,210 --> 00:54:36,280 any unidentified flying objects all 1180 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:39,220 right that's that's a great story it's 1181 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:42,490 exciting but it's fiction you know that 1182 00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,370 I know that what the heck you mean all 1183 00:54:49,740 --> 00:54:47,920 these years Stan hey did I tell you I 1184 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:49,750 won an Academy Award for acting 1185 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:52,330 what about Roswell we were just talking 1186 00:54:56,670 --> 00:54:54,490 about Roswell hey they needed a new 1187 00:54:59,760 --> 00:54:56,680 industry down there the museum has 1188 00:55:01,860 --> 00:54:59,770 filled the needs of the town they've got 1189 00:55:04,410 --> 00:55:01,870 new motels new businesses it's a 1190 00:55:06,270 --> 00:55:04,420 successful retirement community all 1191 00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:06,280 thanks to me and they don't even pay me 1192 00:55:10,860 --> 00:55:08,440 a share of the profits for my stories 1193 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:10,870 Wow what about the noisy negative 1194 00:55:16,770 --> 00:55:14,170 whatever you always say well there are 1195 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:16,780 noisy negative is out there but that's 1196 00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:18,490 beside the point there are many other 1197 00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:20,560 cases that are great we don't need 1198 00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:23,530 Roswell nice town nice place to visit 1199 00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:26,610 gets hotter than heck in the summer but 1200 00:55:32,550 --> 00:55:29,920 you know if you want an honest education 1201 00:55:35,550 --> 00:55:32,560 go to a real school or a real museum 1202 00:55:37,860 --> 00:55:35,560 okay so what you're basically saying is 1203 00:55:39,570 --> 00:55:37,870 flying saucers aren't real 1204 00:55:41,580 --> 00:55:39,580 is that right they're not real in the 1205 00:55:44,490 --> 00:55:41,590 sense that the noisy negative is talk 1206 00:55:46,110 --> 00:55:44,500 about them that's for sure okay well you 1207 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:46,120 heard it from the horse's mouth everyone 1208 00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:48,250 go home this has all been just a bunch 1209 00:55:54,270 --> 00:55:51,280 of bull anyway last podcasts thanks for 1210 00:55:56,070 --> 00:55:54,280 listening guys this is it goodbye let's 1211 00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:56,080 see does anyone have a podcast on 1212 00:56:01,960 --> 00:55:57,530 leprechauns 1213 00:56:05,620 --> 00:56:01,970 I'm gonna check that all right and 1214 00:56:08,380 --> 00:56:05,630 welcome back so this is Martin Willis 1215 00:56:11,770 --> 00:56:08,390 podcast UFO and my guests are Gordon lor 1216 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:11,780 and Barry Greenwood Gordon I would like 1217 00:56:19,210 --> 00:56:17,210 to ask you to talk about Frederick dr. 1218 00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:19,220 Frederick Warde way can you talk about 1219 00:56:28,660 --> 00:56:25,760 him by saying if Barry thinks I'm the 1220 00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:28,670 fountain of UFO information and I think 1221 00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:38,720 of him as the Pacific Ocean yeah yeah I 1222 00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:42,710 dad dot I met Frederick Norway in 1967 1223 00:56:50,890 --> 00:56:46,430 he had called up asking to meet with 1224 00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:50,900 Kehoe the Kehoe was lived a hundred 1225 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:54,110 miles away in Luray Virginia and 1226 00:57:00,730 --> 00:56:56,690 couldn't get up there at the time that 1227 00:57:06,780 --> 00:57:00,740 the Ordway was there and so Ordway took 1228 00:57:09,970 --> 00:57:06,790 me out to lunch and we he said that 1229 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:09,980 stanley kubrick who was doing the film 1230 00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:14,450 that a huge set and i think was in 1231 00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:20,270 london and he wanted to know why or how 1232 00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:23,510 it could possibly be that astronauts 1233 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:27,440 could could make long journeys into 1234 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:31,490 space and still be alive and well by the 1235 00:57:38,050 --> 00:57:33,890 time they got there and that's a time 1236 00:57:43,090 --> 00:57:38,060 now remember this 167 when the idea of 1237 00:57:45,580 --> 00:57:43,100 cryonic internment was first considered 1238 00:57:48,610 --> 00:57:45,590 and even the Ted Williams a great 1239 00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:48,620 baseball player was was chronically 1240 00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:52,160 interred in other words deep frozen so 1241 00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:55,310 that sometime in the future when a a 1242 00:58:01,230 --> 00:57:58,010 cure for a particular disease was found 1243 00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:01,240 they could be fought out and actually 1244 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:04,160 revived and brought back to life of 1245 00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:06,650 course that never happened but the thing 1246 00:58:10,930 --> 00:58:09,680 is that that I mentioned that doorway I 1247 00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:10,940 mean he like 1248 00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:14,510 show them that doctor that one of the 1249 00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:16,130 members of our subcommittee in Los 1250 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:20,930 Angeles was interested in the subject of 1251 00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:27,050 scientists out there and that he could 1252 00:58:30,790 --> 00:58:29,270 maybe talk with him and my understanding 1253 00:58:35,980 --> 00:58:30,800 was that all the way through out there 1254 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:35,990 met with this person and got some 1255 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:38,810 information on his ideas of how that 1256 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:42,650 might be possible in the future of using 1257 00:58:49,660 --> 00:58:46,490 cryonic and Turman and so that actually 1258 00:58:52,510 --> 00:58:49,670 showed up in the first part of the film 1259 00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:52,520 remember when after the Blue Danube 1260 00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:55,520 Waltz stopped and he focused in on the 1261 00:59:01,120 --> 00:58:58,400 film and these these astronauts opening 1262 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:01,130 coffin like containers and rising above 1263 00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:04,730 them and that was my minor contribution 1264 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:08,329 to the film but I really enjoyed working 1265 00:59:15,460 --> 00:59:10,970 with Ordway and our way was the only 1266 00:59:18,700 --> 00:59:15,470 scientist credited in that whole film 1267 00:59:21,490 --> 00:59:18,710 this was before the days today you have 1268 00:59:24,670 --> 00:59:21,500 everybody including the waterboy 1269 00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:24,680 credited now but that wasn't the case 1270 00:59:30,220 --> 00:59:27,760 back then did we even say in the film 1271 00:59:33,339 --> 00:59:30,230 2001 a Space Odyssey we did say that 1272 00:59:38,099 --> 00:59:33,349 right that's correct 1273 00:59:42,010 --> 00:59:38,109 all right I just well it yeah April of 1274 00:59:44,650 --> 00:59:42,020 1968 yeah it's still considered by many 1275 00:59:47,559 --> 00:59:44,660 to be the greatest sci-fi film ever made 1276 00:59:51,099 --> 00:59:47,569 yeah I watched it like last year and it 1277 00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:51,109 still gave me like goosebumps certainty 1278 00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:54,079 I know yeah I know and and how the 1279 00:59:59,920 --> 00:59:57,650 computer is almost scary and the days 1280 01:00:03,190 --> 00:59:59,930 long before there is any such thing as 1281 01:00:05,980 --> 01:00:03,200 personal computers of course right right 1282 01:00:09,970 --> 01:00:05,990 yeah good stuff Wow 1283 01:00:14,260 --> 01:00:09,980 so Barry your turn I would like to ask 1284 01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:14,270 you what you would consider with all the 1285 01:00:18,490 --> 01:00:15,920 research that you have done what do you 1286 01:00:20,890 --> 01:00:18,500 consider you mentioned Socorro but other 1287 01:00:23,860 --> 01:00:20,900 other cases that you consider of high 1288 01:00:26,620 --> 01:00:23,870 value really high value I like them 1289 01:00:30,310 --> 01:00:26,630 oh yes you know any number of them that 1290 01:00:32,170 --> 01:00:30,320 come to mind they usually when I do an 1291 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:32,180 interview with someone the one that 1292 01:00:38,170 --> 01:00:34,730 inevitably comes up is the level in 1293 01:00:41,620 --> 01:00:38,180 Texas story and and not for the reason 1294 01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:41,630 that it's it's proof or evidence of 1295 01:00:47,410 --> 01:00:43,910 extraterrestrial encounters but just the 1296 01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:47,420 sheer strangeness of the information and 1297 01:00:53,620 --> 01:00:50,090 the credibility of it it involved 1298 01:00:57,130 --> 01:00:53,630 multiple sightings of anywhere from a 1299 01:00:58,960 --> 01:00:57,140 smallish - up to 200 foot egg-shaped 1300 01:01:01,650 --> 01:00:58,970 objects that were being seen in 1301 01:01:05,830 --> 01:01:01,660 different locations around the city and 1302 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:05,840 it was during thunderstorm activity so 1303 01:01:10,540 --> 01:01:07,730 you know the natural thing that would 1304 01:01:12,970 --> 01:01:10,550 come to mind would be is some sort of 1305 01:01:15,730 --> 01:01:12,980 natural electrical phenomenon a ball 1306 01:01:18,820 --> 01:01:15,740 lightning in fact and that that seems to 1307 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:18,830 be what the Air Force felt about the 1308 01:01:24,010 --> 01:01:22,370 sightings but I think what escaped a lot 1309 01:01:26,980 --> 01:01:24,020 of people at the time and maybe even 1310 01:01:29,410 --> 01:01:26,990 still does is that to invoke ball 1311 01:01:32,850 --> 01:01:29,420 lightning as an explanation for an 1312 01:01:35,590 --> 01:01:32,860 aerial phenomenon is is just as odd as 1313 01:01:38,770 --> 01:01:35,600 suggesting that extraterrestrials were 1314 01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:38,780 behind it because ball lightning 1315 01:01:44,530 --> 01:01:42,070 research is still looking for that one 1316 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:44,540 incident that's absolutely undeniable 1317 01:01:48,570 --> 01:01:46,610 there are many scientists that still 1318 01:01:50,980 --> 01:01:48,580 doubt the existence of ball lightning 1319 01:01:57,250 --> 01:01:50,990 and it's been with us for a hundreds of 1320 01:02:00,550 --> 01:01:57,260 years but rarely do you get detail as 1321 01:02:03,850 --> 01:02:00,560 was given in the levelin story but at 1322 01:02:05,770 --> 01:02:03,860 least it could be ball lightning maybe 1323 01:02:08,620 --> 01:02:05,780 it's something more especially with this 1324 01:02:11,110 --> 01:02:08,630 alleged 200-foot object that was seen 1325 01:02:13,570 --> 01:02:11,120 that's pretty big and it's way too big 1326 01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:13,580 for ball lightning but you you have a 1327 01:02:18,790 --> 01:02:16,310 minimal explanation as something that is 1328 01:02:23,470 --> 01:02:18,800 considered very exotic and unusual in 1329 01:02:26,590 --> 01:02:23,480 science so for that pandemonium yep 1330 01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:26,600 what's that Gordon yes we're going to 1331 01:02:31,810 --> 01:02:29,810 add a little PostScript to that but go 1332 01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:31,820 ahead Barry didn't mean to interrupt you 1333 01:02:37,730 --> 01:02:34,400 there oh no I was just going to you know 1334 01:02:40,070 --> 01:02:37,740 conclude by saying the fact that the 1335 01:02:44,590 --> 01:02:40,080 force came to that conclusion is really 1336 01:02:47,510 --> 01:02:44,600 unusual and it should have spurred 1337 01:02:51,859 --> 01:02:47,520 continuing research by the air force 1338 01:02:54,350 --> 01:02:51,869 into instance like that and they came up 1339 01:02:56,420 --> 01:02:54,360 from time to time there's still a hefty 1340 01:02:58,550 --> 01:02:56,430 number of unknowns in the air force's 1341 01:03:02,720 --> 01:02:58,560 records but that one in particular just 1342 01:03:05,150 --> 01:03:02,730 got my attention is is almost undeniably 1343 01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:05,160 real that something was there and it was 1344 01:03:15,590 --> 01:03:08,400 really weird and strange et I don't know 1345 01:03:19,970 --> 01:03:15,600 but it was strange right yeah sure yeah 1346 01:03:25,460 --> 01:03:19,980 I haven't that Pedro Salcido he was a 1347 01:03:29,390 --> 01:03:25,470 young fired hand on farmhand related his 1348 01:03:32,270 --> 01:03:29,400 story about it and I think if I recall 1349 01:03:34,220 --> 01:03:32,280 Barry might correct me on this if I'm 1350 01:03:38,570 --> 01:03:34,230 wrong he says something to the effect 1351 01:03:42,430 --> 01:03:38,580 that as the object left the area it had 1352 01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,440 created before he M effects 1353 01:03:46,970 --> 01:03:45,359 electromagnetic effects he says but when 1354 01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:46,980 the object left the area the truck 1355 01:03:52,570 --> 01:03:49,920 lights resumed functioning and he was 1356 01:03:55,820 --> 01:03:52,580 able to restart the engine of his truck 1357 01:03:58,099 --> 01:03:55,830 yeah yeah actually true 1358 01:04:01,010 --> 01:03:58,109 yeah there are multiple reports along 1359 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:01,020 with the sightings of multiple car 1360 01:04:07,099 --> 01:04:03,930 ignition problems or electrical system 1361 01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:07,109 problems and so that's another factor 1362 01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:08,480 that was strange 1363 01:04:14,900 --> 01:04:12,240 right saucedo also added quote it 1364 01:04:19,250 --> 01:04:14,910 sounded like an ear-splitting clap of 1365 01:04:22,130 --> 01:04:19,260 thunder as if something had exploded and 1366 01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:22,140 then a patrolman named fowler initially 1367 01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:23,970 shrugged off the report because i 1368 01:04:28,430 --> 01:04:26,850 thought the code caller was drunk but I 1369 01:04:33,140 --> 01:04:28,440 don't think the caller was drunk there's 1370 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:33,150 no indication that it was yeah number of 1371 01:04:40,370 --> 01:04:37,770 second 1957 - yeah I have a full chapter 1372 01:04:44,210 --> 01:04:40,380 in my book about that particular cases 1373 01:04:48,020 --> 01:04:44,220 chapter - yeah you know another thing 1374 01:04:51,089 --> 01:04:48,030 Gordon is that if I think if you go out 1375 01:04:53,849 --> 01:04:51,099 and search the internet look for 1376 01:04:58,109 --> 01:04:53,859 Life magazine archives I think Google 1377 01:05:01,969 --> 01:04:58,119 does it but they also have posted a an 1378 01:05:05,099 --> 01:05:01,979 archive of life photos if you enter 1379 01:05:07,259 --> 01:05:05,109 flying saucers you'll see a number of 1380 01:05:09,870 --> 01:05:07,269 instances where life reporters had gone 1381 01:05:11,759 --> 01:05:09,880 out and taken pictures levelin was one 1382 01:05:13,589 --> 01:05:11,769 of the stories they investigated but 1383 01:05:16,229 --> 01:05:13,599 they didn't write it up in the regular 1384 01:05:18,809 --> 01:05:16,239 magazine there's a collection of 1385 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:18,819 photographs with the witnesses there and 1386 01:05:24,209 --> 01:05:20,890 I recall one in particular showing a 1387 01:05:26,939 --> 01:05:24,219 nighttime shot of Pedro saucedo hiding 1388 01:05:29,130 --> 01:05:26,949 under his truck you know giving the 1389 01:05:30,689 --> 01:05:29,140 impression of what happened at the time 1390 01:05:34,739 --> 01:05:30,699 he don't under the truck to get away 1391 01:05:37,469 --> 01:05:34,749 from this those photos right yeah 1392 01:05:40,049 --> 01:05:37,479 absolutely yeah well I want to I want to 1393 01:05:44,699 --> 01:05:40,059 add to that there was a tremendous 1394 01:05:50,839 --> 01:05:44,709 amount of reporting blazing headlines 1395 01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:50,849 back in the 50 or 40 50s and 60s on the 1396 01:05:58,170 --> 01:05:54,880 the tail end of the Kenneth Arnold 1397 01:06:02,609 --> 01:05:58,180 sighting in 1947 which really ushered in 1398 01:06:04,469 --> 01:06:02,619 the modern era of UFOs and so that there 1399 01:06:06,749 --> 01:06:04,479 are reports like that that just kept the 1400 01:06:08,969 --> 01:06:06,759 subject in the public mind today however 1401 01:06:11,370 --> 01:06:08,979 you rarely see a headline in any 1402 01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:11,380 newspaper because they're just so much 1403 01:06:15,449 --> 01:06:13,420 other things going on out there the 1404 01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:15,459 particular after the advent of the 1405 01:06:21,630 --> 01:06:17,440 internet and everybody's personal 1406 01:06:24,809 --> 01:06:21,640 computer right so I think the are there 1407 01:06:27,689 --> 01:06:24,819 a lot of people now that either don't 1408 01:06:30,089 --> 01:06:27,699 care about the subject or forgotten 1409 01:06:32,849 --> 01:06:30,099 about it or another interested in it in 1410 01:06:36,299 --> 01:06:32,859 the first place well I have a theory on 1411 01:06:39,469 --> 01:06:36,309 that Gordon the internet the internet 1412 01:06:43,229 --> 01:06:39,479 now is more or less taken over from the 1413 01:06:45,630 --> 01:06:43,239 newspapers that we had in the newspapers 1414 01:06:49,049 --> 01:06:45,640 are shrinking in size and and it's 1415 01:06:51,239 --> 01:06:49,059 harder to continue publishing a lot of 1416 01:06:54,329 --> 01:06:51,249 papers have gone under but the Internet 1417 01:06:56,969 --> 01:06:54,339 has replaced it and if you want to find 1418 01:06:59,729 --> 01:06:56,979 UFO incidents you go on the net and look 1419 01:07:02,549 --> 01:06:59,739 at any number of sites that carry data 1420 01:07:04,460 --> 01:07:02,559 about it that's right there are quite a 1421 01:07:07,820 --> 01:07:04,470 few of those including me and 1422 01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:07,830 capitalist item the triumph language now 1423 01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:10,170 was one of our subcommittee members back 1424 01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:11,130 in the sixties 1425 01:07:18,010 --> 01:07:14,880 yeah mmm yeah um you know there we talk 1426 01:07:21,740 --> 01:07:18,020 a lot of times on this on the show about 1427 01:07:23,690 --> 01:07:21,750 sometimes there's just there's a lot of 1428 01:07:27,830 --> 01:07:23,700 what they call clickbait in other words 1429 01:07:29,570 --> 01:07:27,840 UFOs is some one of the top searched you 1430 01:07:32,780 --> 01:07:29,580 know things on the Internet 1431 01:07:35,870 --> 01:07:32,790 it's it's not too far from the top I 1432 01:07:39,849 --> 01:07:35,880 should say and so a lot of these English 1433 01:07:42,770 --> 01:07:39,859 tabloids will use you know will kind of 1434 01:07:44,599 --> 01:07:42,780 they'll take something and make it into 1435 01:07:48,740 --> 01:07:44,609 something else and make it spectacular 1436 01:07:50,570 --> 01:07:48,750 for what they call clickbait and so by 1437 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:50,580 landing on their website that's what 1438 01:07:58,550 --> 01:07:53,970 they want the most so yeah there was I 1439 01:08:02,480 --> 01:07:58,560 think in 1977 TV Guide took a survey as 1440 01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:02,490 to what generated the most ratings for 1441 01:08:07,580 --> 01:08:04,410 television what topics would be the most 1442 01:08:13,730 --> 01:08:07,590 useful for that and in the top two in 1443 01:08:15,620 --> 01:08:13,740 order were sex and UFOs so if you take 1444 01:08:23,900 --> 01:08:15,630 either one or combine the two especially 1445 01:08:26,209 --> 01:08:23,910 you're going to bang up ratings so we 1446 01:08:30,740 --> 01:08:26,219 digress yeah that's that's pretty good 1447 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:30,750 yeah that's good so I just wanted to ask 1448 01:08:37,789 --> 01:08:34,130 both of you also you know I wanted to 1449 01:08:40,579 --> 01:08:37,799 say that the this show is dedicated to 1450 01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:40,589 Stan Friedman so I just wanted to ask 1451 01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:43,170 I'll start with you Gordon did you ever 1452 01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:47,370 did you ever meet Stan I never met him 1453 01:08:52,579 --> 01:08:50,339 face to face but he was very helpful to 1454 01:08:55,249 --> 01:08:52,589 me because I had contact with him back 1455 01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:55,259 in not half days and all three of know 1456 01:08:59,720 --> 01:08:57,600 you for I didn't have much contact with 1457 01:09:01,940 --> 01:08:59,730 him but occasionally in fact when I 1458 01:09:09,950 --> 01:09:01,950 first set up you for he wished me very 1459 01:09:13,130 --> 01:09:09,960 well and he said in a what he what he 1460 01:09:17,150 --> 01:09:13,140 called a review copy of flying saucers 1461 01:09:17,959 --> 01:09:17,160 for scientific paper papers by nuclear 1462 01:09:20,749 --> 01:09:17,969 physicist 1463 01:09:25,299 --> 01:09:20,759 lecturer Stanton T Friedman there were 1464 01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:25,309 the science fiction science and UFOs 1465 01:09:31,879 --> 01:09:28,799 1977 fiction fact and flying saucers in 1466 01:09:35,239 --> 01:09:31,889 1979 a scientific approach to flying 1467 01:09:39,289 --> 01:09:35,249 saucers behavior 1973 and the case for 1468 01:09:42,799 --> 01:09:39,299 the et origin of flying saucers in 1979 1469 01:09:45,879 --> 01:09:42,809 I had carry out of contact with him off 1470 01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:45,889 and on but nothing in depth I wish I had 1471 01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:49,650 yeah yeah he was happy he was very 1472 01:09:54,379 --> 01:09:52,650 available at a lot of conferences in it 1473 01:09:58,250 --> 01:09:54,389 just seemed like wherever I went there 1474 01:10:01,339 --> 01:09:58,260 he was which was always a great now 1475 01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:01,349 berry we had a little bit of an email 1476 01:10:04,729 --> 01:10:02,610 exchange I know there was a little bit 1477 01:10:09,140 --> 01:10:04,739 of friction there when it comes to mj-12 1478 01:10:13,069 --> 01:10:09,150 and and I had questions stand on those 1479 01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:13,079 documents a little bit you've known you 1480 01:10:20,149 --> 01:10:17,280 knew him a long time that blog said and 1481 01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:20,159 yeah you know I was aware of Stan for a 1482 01:10:27,290 --> 01:10:23,369 lot of years before the 80s came along 1483 01:10:30,729 --> 01:10:27,300 and and if one thing about Stan is he 1484 01:10:34,430 --> 01:10:30,739 was one of the most spirited energetic 1485 01:10:37,009 --> 01:10:34,440 advocates of the eth the 1486 01:10:40,219 --> 01:10:37,019 extra-terrestrial hypothesis of just 1487 01:10:44,870 --> 01:10:40,229 about anyone out there save maybe Kehoe 1488 01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:44,880 MacDonald and in a few others but he put 1489 01:10:50,450 --> 01:10:47,340 a lot of energy into the subject over 1490 01:10:52,370 --> 01:10:50,460 the years and and I thought that was 1491 01:10:56,569 --> 01:10:52,380 really cool then when the eighties 1492 01:11:02,270 --> 01:10:56,579 rolled around he he got into Roswell and 1493 01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:02,280 mj-12 and I you know I had been 1494 01:11:07,009 --> 01:11:04,710 observing that from afar too for a while 1495 01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:07,019 and then suddenly I found myself in the 1496 01:11:13,279 --> 01:11:10,530 middle of it I just wasn't convinced by 1497 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:13,289 mj-12 at all and that was based upon the 1498 01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:17,010 research that myself and Larry Fawcett 1499 01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:20,159 and several other people bred sparks Bob 1500 01:11:29,689 --> 01:11:25,440 Todd Todd's echo on fo-fo ia releases 1501 01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:29,699 and we didn't think that the information 1502 01:11:33,810 --> 01:11:31,690 coming out about mj-12 1503 01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:33,820 rose up to the standards of what we 1504 01:11:42,510 --> 01:11:36,310 expected out of real government document 1505 01:11:44,450 --> 01:11:42,520 releases I realized that given the 1506 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:44,460 write-ups on Roswell beginning around 1507 01:11:49,979 --> 01:11:48,010 1978 and culminating in a book by Bill 1508 01:11:52,050 --> 01:11:49,989 Moore and Charles Berlitz the Roswell 1509 01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:52,060 incident that there was a certain 1510 01:12:00,840 --> 01:11:55,210 version of Roswell that I think Stan and 1511 01:12:02,729 --> 01:12:00,850 Bill adhered to and it seemed too much 1512 01:12:08,459 --> 01:12:02,739 of a coincidence that when the mj-12 1513 01:12:10,860 --> 01:12:08,469 papers broke that that seemed to more or 1514 01:12:12,689 --> 01:12:10,870 less confirm their version of the story 1515 01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:12,699 even though there were several others 1516 01:12:17,700 --> 01:12:14,890 now I can't go into all the details 1517 01:12:20,430 --> 01:12:17,710 about how that evolved over many many 1518 01:12:24,810 --> 01:12:20,440 years is vast amount of information out 1519 01:12:29,250 --> 01:12:24,820 there on it back and forth but I just 1520 01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:29,260 felt that the story of mj-12 was to pat 1521 01:12:35,310 --> 01:12:32,650 with their version of roswell and it it 1522 01:12:37,709 --> 01:12:35,320 seemed manufactured and i as I later 1523 01:12:39,979 --> 01:12:37,719 found out there was more evidence that 1524 01:12:43,670 --> 01:12:39,989 it was manufactured that at one point 1525 01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:43,680 before the whole thing became public 1526 01:12:50,820 --> 01:12:48,130 there was a story about a several people 1527 01:12:52,530 --> 01:12:50,830 including more co-authoring a fiction 1528 01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:52,540 novel which was essentially the 1529 01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:54,400 blueprint for mj-12 that would have been 1530 01:13:01,979 --> 01:12:58,480 around 1980 tour so and it took many 1531 01:13:05,070 --> 01:13:01,989 many years to try to flesh out detail on 1532 01:13:07,350 --> 01:13:05,080 that but there was a fiction novel and 1533 01:13:10,740 --> 01:13:07,360 it did outline mj-12 before it was 1534 01:13:12,990 --> 01:13:10,750 touted as real it just it just bothered 1535 01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:13,000 me that there were too many issues like 1536 01:13:19,530 --> 01:13:15,489 that and I you know I I went at it with 1537 01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:19,540 Stan over the years on it and published 1538 01:13:25,350 --> 01:13:21,520 a lot of information about it but you 1539 01:13:27,270 --> 01:13:25,360 know that's that's what happened and you 1540 01:13:29,370 --> 01:13:27,280 know it's unfortunate the Stan's gone 1541 01:13:31,140 --> 01:13:29,380 now it's too bad I don't I don't like to 1542 01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:31,150 see that happen we lose people in the 1543 01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:36,610 subject but no it's my condolences to 1544 01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:45,540 doesn't have to be even sure 1545 01:13:52,380 --> 01:13:50,650 yeah sure well the purpose of mj-12 was 1546 01:13:55,830 --> 01:13:52,390 to investigate the crash of the own 1547 01:13:57,630 --> 01:13:55,840 spacecraft near Roswell document 1548 01:13:59,520 --> 01:13:57,640 associated with it are said to have 1549 01:14:01,770 --> 01:13:59,530 confirmed that the American government 1550 01:14:04,470 --> 01:14:01,780 was extensively involved in the 1551 01:14:07,340 --> 01:14:04,480 retrieval of a crashed ET craft 1552 01:14:10,260 --> 01:14:07,350 including the occupants assorted 1553 01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:10,270 documents released from non official 1554 01:14:16,110 --> 01:14:13,150 sources were directly on a target to 1555 01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:16,120 create a lingering firestorm among UFO 1556 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:18,610 investigators as promising as this 1557 01:14:23,130 --> 01:14:21,010 sounded there were serious problems with 1558 01:14:26,220 --> 01:14:23,140 the story and particularly with the 1559 01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:26,230 documents themselves so you get to 1560 01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:30,880 follow up on what yeah so do you um well 1561 01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:35,290 I'll ask you this Barry did you do you 1562 01:14:43,710 --> 01:14:40,000 have another thought of what Roswell is 1563 01:14:45,150 --> 01:14:43,720 I mean the argument I given my listeners 1564 01:14:47,970 --> 01:14:45,160 have heard me say it a million times is 1565 01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:47,980 the one argument or if there is an 1566 01:14:51,300 --> 01:14:49,450 argument at all 1567 01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:51,310 we have someone trying to call in hang 1568 01:14:58,620 --> 01:14:53,290 on just a minute and we'll take calls in 1569 01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:58,630 a bit here but my my argument as that 1570 01:15:03,420 --> 01:15:00,640 it's there is something to it 1571 01:15:07,650 --> 01:15:03,430 or whatever there is to it but the 1572 01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:07,660 government actually released to the 1573 01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:10,090 press that they captured a flying disc 1574 01:15:14,190 --> 01:15:12,880 and my my question is why did they even 1575 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:14,200 do that they could have just let the 1576 01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:15,130 whole thing blow over 1577 01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:20,050 it's yeah situation well I think when 1578 01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:22,210 one thing a lot of people don't 1579 01:15:28,740 --> 01:15:25,120 recognize about Roswell in that era is 1580 01:15:31,980 --> 01:15:28,750 that it Roswell happened then at the 1581 01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:31,990 very tail end of a large UFO wave it 1582 01:15:35,730 --> 01:15:33,850 wasn't the first thing that happened or 1583 01:15:38,300 --> 01:15:35,740 the only thing that happened it was it 1584 01:15:41,790 --> 01:15:38,310 was right you think it the first 1585 01:15:43,710 --> 01:15:41,800 breaking of news on it was July 8th 47 1586 01:15:46,380 --> 01:15:43,720 and all the papers carried it on July 1587 01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:46,390 9th and and just as quickly at the same 1588 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:49,930 time said it was a weather balloon and 1589 01:15:55,429 --> 01:15:52,930 disguise thank you very about a month 1590 01:15:59,060 --> 01:15:55,439 after the Kenneth Arnold sighting was 1591 01:16:03,049 --> 01:15:59,070 it was a matter of less less a matter of 1592 01:16:07,069 --> 01:16:03,059 week it was just the weeks it was at the 1593 01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:07,079 tail end so it was like the culmination 1594 01:16:16,069 --> 01:16:10,489 of that wave and then from that point on 1595 01:16:18,859 --> 01:16:16,079 to about 1978 or so it was never 1596 01:16:21,140 --> 01:16:18,869 regarded as anything special 1597 01:16:24,020 --> 01:16:21,150 it was always hard into the category of 1598 01:16:29,899 --> 01:16:24,030 a you know an identified object and that 1599 01:16:32,839 --> 01:16:29,909 was the end of it yeah yeah regurgitated 1600 01:16:37,179 --> 01:16:32,849 I didn't mean to say regurgitate but but 1601 01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:37,189 brought up the case again that it really 1602 01:16:47,029 --> 01:16:43,050 hit all the news right yeah yeah what 1603 01:16:51,049 --> 01:16:47,039 did was he he he was able to contact 1604 01:16:52,969 --> 01:16:51,059 Jesse Marcel jr. well right definitely 1605 01:16:55,459 --> 01:16:52,979 involved in the story he was positively 1606 01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:55,469 part of it and and he told a pretty 1607 01:17:00,409 --> 01:16:57,840 lurid tale about his involvement which 1608 01:17:04,279 --> 01:17:00,419 got Stan's interest and that's how this 1609 01:17:06,679 --> 01:17:04,289 story began rolling I I take Roswell and 1610 01:17:08,419 --> 01:17:06,689 do it in two parts it is the earlier as 1611 01:17:11,179 --> 01:17:08,429 well and then there's a later Roswell 1612 01:17:15,409 --> 01:17:11,189 which was 30 years after the original 1613 01:17:18,109 --> 01:17:15,419 and yes and I like to go with the 1614 01:17:21,259 --> 01:17:18,119 original story more so than a 30-year 1615 01:17:25,189 --> 01:17:21,269 recollection and the original report was 1616 01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:25,199 Mac Brazel found a pile of debris it was 1617 01:17:30,469 --> 01:17:27,689 described very well in the paper didn't 1618 01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:30,479 have any photographs of it except there 1619 01:17:40,250 --> 01:17:33,360 was one and in the news coverage of July 1620 01:17:42,319 --> 01:17:40,260 9th which showed general Ramey and and 1621 01:17:44,959 --> 01:17:42,329 Irving Newton who was a weather officer 1622 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:44,969 at the time posing with debris and the 1623 01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:47,010 debris there look a lot like what they 1624 01:17:58,729 --> 01:17:56,880 described in the paper yeah yeah yeah it 1625 01:18:00,469 --> 01:17:58,739 hardly looked like extraterrestrial 1626 01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:00,479 debris but that wasn't the point they 1627 01:18:03,649 --> 01:18:02,010 were making at the time they were saying 1628 01:18:06,859 --> 01:18:03,659 it was just balloon debris and that was 1629 01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:06,869 the end of it only later did all the 1630 01:18:10,970 --> 01:18:09,120 extra-terrestrial business come out 1631 01:18:13,970 --> 01:18:10,980 but then you you were three decades 1632 01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:13,980 removed from the original story and and 1633 01:18:19,370 --> 01:18:16,650 now it was impossible to verify it 1634 01:18:23,810 --> 01:18:19,380 well my I don't want to say argument but 1635 01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:23,820 my thoughts on that is that it you 1636 01:18:28,190 --> 01:18:26,490 didn't have witnesses come forward when 1637 01:18:30,380 --> 01:18:28,200 it first happened you know is that they 1638 01:18:33,290 --> 01:18:30,390 were people were told to keep quiet and 1639 01:18:36,410 --> 01:18:33,300 you know the witnesses came out after we 1640 01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:36,420 have actually a caller on the line he 1641 01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:38,490 was persistent in calling I call your 1642 01:18:45,410 --> 01:18:41,360 first name and where you calling from 1643 01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:45,420 hey Martin its Dean Alioto no Dean I 1644 01:18:49,970 --> 01:18:48,090 Adeem Dean was on the show years ago he 1645 01:18:53,450 --> 01:18:49,980 has a he has quite a quite an 1646 01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:53,460 interesting story himself he just 1647 01:18:59,180 --> 01:18:57,090 quickly Dean tell the story about the 1648 01:19:01,220 --> 01:18:59,190 the film you made real quickly and how 1649 01:19:04,010 --> 01:19:01,230 it went just for entertainment for for 1650 01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:04,020 these gentlemen if you would sure I'll 1651 01:19:07,850 --> 01:19:05,730 try to be as brief as possible because I 1652 01:19:13,220 --> 01:19:07,860 do not want to co-opt the great Stan 1653 01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:13,230 Friedman's memory here um I had done I 1654 01:19:18,670 --> 01:19:15,840 just come out of film school and was 1655 01:19:21,530 --> 01:19:18,680 desperate to make my first feature and 1656 01:19:23,330 --> 01:19:21,540 the only thing that I could do with the 1657 01:19:26,420 --> 01:19:23,340 amount of budget that I had which was 1658 01:19:28,730 --> 01:19:26,430 6,500 bucks was a home video so I made 1659 01:19:30,860 --> 01:19:28,740 the first-ever found footage film that 1660 01:19:32,150 --> 01:19:30,870 happened to be about UFOs it was about a 1661 01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:32,160 family that gets abducted by 1662 01:19:37,490 --> 01:19:35,370 extraterrestrials I had been a big fan 1663 01:19:41,090 --> 01:19:37,500 of Whitney streamers work and but 1664 01:19:45,650 --> 01:19:41,100 Hopkins and and that bled into the 1665 01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:45,660 actual authenticity of the film and this 1666 01:19:49,670 --> 01:19:47,520 is this is some that I done actually got 1667 01:19:51,050 --> 01:19:49,680 distributed the distribution company 1668 01:19:52,850 --> 01:19:51,060 burned to the ground and I thought well 1669 01:19:54,710 --> 01:19:52,860 that was it that's my first effort time 1670 01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:54,720 to move on and I'm glad I got a chance 1671 01:19:58,730 --> 01:19:57,120 to portray as realistic as possible what 1672 01:20:02,270 --> 01:19:58,740 that abduction experience would be like 1673 01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:02,280 without actually being abducted and five 1674 01:20:06,230 --> 01:20:04,050 years goes by and then I find out that 1675 01:20:08,510 --> 01:20:06,240 someone much more clever than I am had 1676 01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:08,520 edited off the credits and pass it 1677 01:20:13,010 --> 01:20:10,170 around the UFO community as the real 1678 01:20:15,620 --> 01:20:13,020 McCoy so it ends up at the International 1679 01:20:19,670 --> 01:20:15,630 UFO Congress convention about thirty 1680 01:20:21,770 --> 01:20:19,680 years ago and it is our 25 years ago 1681 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:21,780 actually the anniversary was and it 1682 01:20:25,580 --> 01:20:22,770 becomes this 1683 01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:25,590 kind of big conspiracy hit if you will 1684 01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:28,650 and UPN TV asked me to remake it 1685 01:20:34,940 --> 01:20:32,370 so I remade it this time and as a TV 1686 01:20:37,930 --> 01:20:34,950 movie and shot the film and while we 1687 01:20:42,140 --> 01:20:37,940 were shooting everyone at UPN got fired 1688 01:20:44,180 --> 01:20:42,150 so this woman came on board to cut the 1689 01:20:46,250 --> 01:20:44,190 film from an hour or from two hours to 1690 01:20:49,729 --> 01:20:46,260 one hour and she went and interviewed 1691 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:49,739 all of these UFO luminaries and then 1692 01:20:55,490 --> 01:20:53,370 intercut them into my remake which I had 1693 01:20:57,740 --> 01:20:55,500 you know nothing to do with the actual 1694 01:21:02,540 --> 01:20:57,750 footage that she shot one of those 1695 01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:02,550 people was Stan Freeman and so 1696 01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:05,850 Stan's commenting on the phenomenon you 1697 01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:09,360 know as kind of in generic terms and the 1698 01:21:14,570 --> 01:21:11,330 juxtaposition between his interview and 1699 01:21:17,510 --> 01:21:14,580 as well as Yvonne Smith and Darryl sim 1700 01:21:20,990 --> 01:21:17,520 and a few others he was relating to 1701 01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:21,000 myself so that key and coast-to-coast 1702 01:21:25,850 --> 01:21:23,850 was also uh you know commented on on 1703 01:21:28,130 --> 01:21:25,860 that and so I got a chance last year for 1704 01:21:31,310 --> 01:21:28,140 the 25th anniversary to meet Stan Lee 1705 01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:31,320 and I came up to him and I you know me a 1706 01:21:34,910 --> 01:21:33,090 co-op I said look I want you to know 1707 01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:34,920 that I'm terribly sorry that thing that 1708 01:21:41,060 --> 01:21:39,210 happened many years ago and I'm sorry 1709 01:21:43,610 --> 01:21:41,070 and I have nothing but respect for you 1710 01:21:47,060 --> 01:21:43,620 and you've been nothing but a great 1711 01:21:49,070 --> 01:21:47,070 advocate for the field like no one stand 1712 01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:49,080 up against Philip Glass and and 1713 01:21:55,070 --> 01:21:52,290 everything else he's done and you know 1714 01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:55,080 as well as bringing credible science and 1715 01:21:59,479 --> 01:21:57,090 great arguments to it and he looked at 1716 01:22:00,140 --> 01:21:59,489 me and he said I have no idea what 1717 01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:00,150 you're talking about 1718 01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:04,650 son I've worked on probably I can't even 1719 01:22:08,270 --> 01:22:06,210 keep track of how many you know 1720 01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:08,280 thousands of interviews I've done but 1721 01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:11,760 you know no offense here and so that 1722 01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:14,610 meeting happened on martin's show at the 1723 01:22:22,010 --> 01:22:18,239 international congress convention knife 1724 01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:22,020 and and so i thought of nothing but a 1725 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:25,290 sweet man who genuinely had interest and 1726 01:22:29,570 --> 01:22:27,570 was always always sharpening his tools 1727 01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:29,580 to get to the truth as anything 1728 01:22:34,529 --> 01:22:32,730 regarding this you know regarding this 1729 01:22:36,779 --> 01:22:34,539 field 1730 01:22:39,330 --> 01:22:36,789 well Dean that's that's great I really 1731 01:22:43,500 --> 01:22:39,340 thank you for the call that's a real 1732 01:22:47,189 --> 01:22:43,510 nice tribute to stand he was a great man 1733 01:22:49,979 --> 01:22:47,199 yeah well the name of the film this ago 1734 01:22:55,169 --> 01:22:49,989 by a current name that we can find out 1735 01:22:58,020 --> 01:22:55,179 about sure you can actually pick up the 1736 01:23:01,979 --> 01:22:58,030 film you can actually get a copy at us 1737 01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:01,989 or abduction muzie dot-com and so the 1738 01:23:06,649 --> 01:23:04,570 original is called UFO abduction the 1739 01:23:10,890 --> 01:23:06,659 remake is called alien abduction 1740 01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:10,900 incident in Lake County and and that was 1741 01:23:15,569 --> 01:23:13,690 um there was also it goes by if you look 1742 01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:15,579 at online that goes by the McPherson 1743 01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:19,570 tape and my version is for sale I don't 1744 01:23:23,100 --> 01:23:21,130 know if you can actually get that the 1745 01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:23,110 the remake that I did for Dick Clark and 1746 01:23:28,890 --> 01:23:26,650 UPN I got a copy of that that job well 1747 01:23:30,330 --> 01:23:28,900 one one funny story in this whole whole 1748 01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:30,340 incident that he's talking about in the 1749 01:23:35,729 --> 01:23:32,610 film is that he's actually had people 1750 01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:35,739 argue with him that that film was real 1751 01:23:41,220 --> 01:23:37,360 and someone said they even knew the 1752 01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:41,230 Macpherson's right yeah I had someone 1753 01:23:47,009 --> 01:23:45,010 that said to me when I was presenting 1754 01:23:50,580 --> 01:23:47,019 lecturing at the UFO convention last 1755 01:23:52,859 --> 01:23:50,590 year they said I know someone who or my 1756 01:23:55,379 --> 01:23:52,869 mother knows someone who knew the 1757 01:23:59,520 --> 01:23:55,389 McPherson family how do you explain that 1758 01:24:01,560 --> 01:23:59,530 they never talk to them again and I I 1759 01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:01,570 can't explain why your mother why your 1760 01:24:05,279 --> 01:24:03,610 mother knew someone who was good friends 1761 01:24:09,899 --> 01:24:05,289 with a fictional character I can't 1762 01:24:12,419 --> 01:24:09,909 really help you but I'm the only one 1763 01:24:14,700 --> 01:24:12,429 who's been outing myself because you 1764 01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:14,710 know you go online and there's all these 1765 01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:16,449 conspiracies about it and then I you 1766 01:24:20,250 --> 01:24:17,920 know work for the government part of a 1767 01:24:21,870 --> 01:24:20,260 disinformation and usually it goes the 1768 01:24:22,979 --> 01:24:21,880 other way but I'm you know I'm showing 1769 01:24:27,660 --> 01:24:22,989 behind the scenes pictures and 1770 01:24:29,339 --> 01:24:27,670 everything saying guys just thank you 1771 01:24:31,979 --> 01:24:29,349 you know get my first film done and 1772 01:24:32,700 --> 01:24:31,989 become a filmmaker yeah you know that's 1773 01:24:36,020 --> 01:24:32,710 a great story 1774 01:24:38,369 --> 01:24:36,030 hey Dean thanks for the call 1775 01:24:41,759 --> 01:24:38,379 Thanks got a fix Martin for great work 1776 01:24:43,009 --> 01:24:41,769 as well all right you take care guys all 1777 01:24:48,029 --> 01:24:43,019 right bye-bye 1778 01:24:50,579 --> 01:24:48,039 that was pretty funny huh so I seem to 1779 01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:50,589 remember that story a while back yeah 1780 01:24:56,129 --> 01:24:54,010 yeah yeah it's interesting it's 1781 01:25:00,419 --> 01:24:56,139 interesting go ahead go ahead 1782 01:25:02,759 --> 01:25:00,429 yeah about the car okay you know it 1783 01:25:07,109 --> 01:25:02,769 seems like everything that was picked up 1784 01:25:09,270 --> 01:25:07,119 off the ground you could find it almost 1785 01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:09,280 anywhere you know are you talking about 1786 01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:18,299 I just wonder what why that was taken so 1787 01:25:24,179 --> 01:25:21,489 much as being something from outer space 1788 01:25:27,179 --> 01:25:24,189 I think never they don't figure that out 1789 01:25:29,279 --> 01:25:27,189 well yeah I think I can answer that at 1790 01:25:31,709 --> 01:25:29,289 the time it wasn't taken as something 1791 01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:31,719 from outer space but over time yeah I 1792 01:25:37,949 --> 01:25:34,570 realize it became that yeah well I mean 1793 01:25:40,649 --> 01:25:37,959 well you got it you gotta admit the 1794 01:25:42,959 --> 01:25:40,659 press release the press release kind of 1795 01:25:45,599 --> 01:25:42,969 steered it toward something 1796 01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:45,609 extraterrestrial you know when it said 1797 01:25:50,849 --> 01:25:48,159 flying discs cotton and Roswell well 1798 01:25:53,089 --> 01:25:50,859 whatever captured you know that only 1799 01:25:55,649 --> 01:25:53,099 lasted for a matter of hours and then 1800 01:25:58,199 --> 01:25:55,659 shortly after that was thoroughly 1801 01:26:00,779 --> 01:25:58,209 trashed they went with the balloon 1802 01:26:02,759 --> 01:26:00,789 explanation I mean okay I think anyone 1803 01:26:04,819 --> 01:26:02,769 reading the papers on July 8th would 1804 01:26:08,549 --> 01:26:04,829 have been fooled by it but on July 9th 1805 01:26:13,049 --> 01:26:08,559 that was dead okay but listen about this 1806 01:26:15,779 --> 01:26:13,059 logically - why why would they say that 1807 01:26:18,209 --> 01:26:15,789 first of all and and are you telling me 1808 01:26:19,469 --> 01:26:18,219 that someone in the Army Air Force at 1809 01:26:24,389 --> 01:26:19,479 the time didn't know what they were 1810 01:26:26,699 --> 01:26:24,399 looking at I don't think a lot of people 1811 01:26:29,819 --> 01:26:26,709 even military knew what the phenomenon 1812 01:26:33,359 --> 01:26:29,829 was all about at all it was a very 1813 01:26:36,119 --> 01:26:33,369 strange development when the saucer 1814 01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:36,129 reports first broke and and even the 1815 01:26:40,319 --> 01:26:38,050 military was baffled as to what was 1816 01:26:42,329 --> 01:26:40,329 responsible for it the sightings were 1817 01:26:46,049 --> 01:26:42,339 happening by the thousands all over the 1818 01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:46,059 place you're missing that point yeah no 1819 01:26:51,810 --> 01:26:49,090 my point is the 1820 01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:51,820 that they they the Army Air Force 1821 01:26:57,720 --> 01:26:55,210 themselves if they came upon the debris 1822 01:26:59,280 --> 01:26:57,730 field or anyone that went forward with 1823 01:27:01,200 --> 01:26:59,290 the press release or was involved with 1824 01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:01,210 the press release all right are you 1825 01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:02,410 telling me that they wouldn't know what 1826 01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:05,440 they're looking at well the people who 1827 01:27:09,210 --> 01:27:07,600 issued the press release I don't think 1828 01:27:11,970 --> 01:27:09,220 we're out in the field seeing this they 1829 01:27:13,890 --> 01:27:11,980 were being told what happened by people 1830 01:27:16,230 --> 01:27:13,900 that looked at by the very people that 1831 01:27:18,540 --> 01:27:16,240 went out and gathered this debris which 1832 01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:18,550 again was described in the papers as 1833 01:27:25,710 --> 01:27:23,040 sticks and rubberized material and and 1834 01:27:27,630 --> 01:27:25,720 tape flowered tape 1835 01:27:29,910 --> 01:27:27,640 okay well the the the point I'm trying 1836 01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:29,920 to get at is what where did the flying 1837 01:27:37,620 --> 01:27:33,930 saucer or captured disc come from then 1838 01:27:41,250 --> 01:27:37,630 the captured disc came 30 years later no 1839 01:27:44,340 --> 01:27:41,260 no it was released in on the day yeah 1840 01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:44,350 but what I'm saying is that the debris 1841 01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:46,690 that was found clearly wasn't flying dis 1842 01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:48,490 debris the guys that were given that 1843 01:27:53,700 --> 01:27:51,520 story read into it that it was some kind 1844 01:27:56,730 --> 01:27:53,710 of a flying disc but the material itself 1845 01:27:58,650 --> 01:27:56,740 was an extraterrestrial at the time so 1846 01:28:00,840 --> 01:27:58,660 they issued this story but it almost 1847 01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:00,850 immediately had to retract it okay so 1848 01:28:06,290 --> 01:28:03,730 where was the miscommunication where you 1849 01:28:09,150 --> 01:28:06,300 think of the miscommunication when 1850 01:28:11,310 --> 01:28:09,160 something between the folks that 1851 01:28:14,190 --> 01:28:11,320 gathered the debris and the people who 1852 01:28:17,370 --> 01:28:14,200 issued statements about it I don't think 1853 01:28:19,410 --> 01:28:17,380 Jesse Marcel author at any of the 1854 01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:19,420 statements that were released to the 1855 01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:23,250 press that was done by Walter Haut I 1856 01:28:29,310 --> 01:28:25,570 don't think he saw the debris at the 1857 01:28:32,070 --> 01:28:29,320 time yeah but um someone had to someone 1858 01:28:34,410 --> 01:28:32,080 of some authority had to say this is 1859 01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:34,420 what we found and and the person that is 1860 01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:35,890 going to do the press release I don't 1861 01:28:41,190 --> 01:28:37,120 think would be the person making the 1862 01:28:43,710 --> 01:28:41,200 decision to call it a flying disc so we 1863 01:28:47,670 --> 01:28:43,720 can plainly disagree that was that was 1864 01:28:49,410 --> 01:28:47,680 it was clearly a follow up to call it a 1865 01:28:51,900 --> 01:28:49,420 flying disc because that's not what the 1866 01:28:54,030 --> 01:28:51,910 debris shows well that's quite a big 1867 01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:54,040 jump and quite a big follow up if you 1868 01:28:58,470 --> 01:28:55,690 ask me I mean it doesn't see it is 1869 01:29:02,510 --> 01:28:58,480 possible that that whole era was replete 1870 01:29:08,060 --> 01:29:05,900 by the way I was wondering Martin if I 1871 01:29:09,950 --> 01:29:08,070 could greedy you would have about five 1872 01:29:13,010 --> 01:29:09,960 minutes I can read you a little section 1873 01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:13,020 in my book here about what major Keyhoe 1874 01:29:18,650 --> 01:29:16,410 actually thought I really I really don't 1875 01:29:20,900 --> 01:29:18,660 like reading on my show too much but if 1876 01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:20,910 you can kind of give a kind of like an 1877 01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:23,090 overview of it if you would please oh 1878 01:29:32,210 --> 01:29:28,560 sure yeah well I was Kehoe kept the 1879 01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:32,220 subject of the abduction and and even 1880 01:29:45,650 --> 01:29:38,370 occupant cases silent from nycap until 1881 01:29:48,230 --> 01:29:45,660 1969 when I wrote the book strange 1882 01:29:51,110 --> 01:29:48,240 effects from the UFOs which Mike had 1883 01:29:54,290 --> 01:29:51,120 published but I asked him one time what 1884 01:29:56,690 --> 01:29:54,300 he thought had alien beings from other 1885 01:29:59,150 --> 01:29:56,700 planets been observing and monitoring 1886 01:30:01,730 --> 01:29:59,160 all these years and he said he had no 1887 01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:01,740 doubt about it and that I had probably 1888 01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:04,410 seen by now a lot of information 1889 01:30:09,170 --> 01:30:06,930 confirming it and we will see a lot more 1890 01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:09,180 he said particularly of our work with 1891 01:30:14,090 --> 01:30:11,730 the Colorado folks the University of 1892 01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:14,100 Colorado Post continues and is 1893 01:30:19,460 --> 01:30:17,010 successful and he says but tell me do 1894 01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:19,470 you think that officials at the highest 1895 01:30:25,150 --> 01:30:22,170 level of government including President 1896 01:30:29,210 --> 01:30:25,160 Johnson know we are being observed by 1897 01:30:31,580 --> 01:30:29,220 aliens from outer space yes I have no 1898 01:30:33,650 --> 01:30:31,590 doubt about it he responded with this 1899 01:30:35,990 --> 01:30:33,660 confirmed by Admiral Helen Cloyd or 1900 01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:36,000 anyone else and I don't know Helen 1901 01:30:40,610 --> 01:30:37,920 Keller didn't kill over close friends of 1902 01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:40,620 the Naval Academy and kelan oder became 1903 01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:43,050 the first director of the CIA but the 1904 01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:45,090 major responded to my question 1905 01:30:54,890 --> 01:30:47,610 ha you're not going to catch me there I 1906 01:30:56,930 --> 01:30:54,900 can't say of course that's yeah well we 1907 01:31:00,860 --> 01:30:56,940 have callers going to be calling in in 1908 01:31:02,810 --> 01:31:00,870 just a second here he just texts me 1909 01:31:06,230 --> 01:31:02,820 there he's calling in and it's a it's 1910 01:31:09,100 --> 01:31:06,240 Lee Spiegel and and here he is I think 1911 01:31:12,860 --> 01:31:09,110 this is him Lee is that you 1912 01:31:14,510 --> 01:31:12,870 it is highly thanks for calling it Lee 1913 01:31:16,729 --> 01:31:14,520 Spiegel I want you to meet the guests 1914 01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:16,739 that we have tonight we have 1915 01:31:23,870 --> 01:31:21,690 Gordon lore and Barry Greenwood Barry 1916 01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:23,880 Greenwood and I go back many many many 1917 01:31:27,770 --> 01:31:25,199 many many decades 1918 01:31:28,609 --> 01:31:27,780 how are you Barry yes yeah hey Lee how 1919 01:31:31,010 --> 01:31:28,619 you doing 1920 01:31:35,180 --> 01:31:31,020 I remember you're on the radio in New 1921 01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:35,190 York City right yeah yes on NBC's many 1922 01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:37,770 years ago are you yeah that was about 1923 01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:40,770 the time when clear intent came out that 1924 01:31:44,649 --> 01:31:43,050 was exactly the time yes I remember the 1925 01:31:48,290 --> 01:31:44,659 blue-and-white cover 1926 01:31:50,540 --> 01:31:48,300 yep yep yeah that's right now have you 1927 01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:50,550 ever have you ever spoken with uh with 1928 01:31:57,500 --> 01:31:53,730 Gordon Laura before no I haven't nice to 1929 01:32:00,050 --> 01:31:57,510 meet you Gordon nice to meet you very 1930 01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:00,060 good yeah my flying saucers from beyond 1931 01:32:04,570 --> 01:32:01,530 the earth has a nice blue and white 1932 01:32:14,510 --> 01:32:04,580 cover - okay 1933 01:32:17,209 --> 01:32:14,520 excellent excellent Malea okay yeah so 1934 01:32:19,220 --> 01:32:17,219 Lee I asked you to call him because this 1935 01:32:20,959 --> 01:32:19,230 show is dedicated to Stan Friedman and 1936 01:32:22,430 --> 01:32:20,969 we were talking about him 1937 01:32:24,109 --> 01:32:22,440 we just got into a pretty good 1938 01:32:26,750 --> 01:32:24,119 discussion about Roswell but you missed 1939 01:32:29,570 --> 01:32:26,760 that so I know you're on the train but 1940 01:32:32,050 --> 01:32:29,580 thanks for calling in um do you want to 1941 01:32:35,810 --> 01:32:32,060 give your a little say about standing 1942 01:32:39,229 --> 01:32:35,820 you know Stan Friedman was the first 1943 01:32:42,140 --> 01:32:39,239 person who I ever interviewed about 1944 01:32:47,089 --> 01:32:42,150 anything really and it just happened to 1945 01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:47,099 be yeah it was in 1975 and I was just 1946 01:32:54,620 --> 01:32:49,730 beginning work on what would then become 1947 01:32:56,689 --> 01:32:54,630 my documentary UFO there's a documentary 1948 01:33:01,910 --> 01:32:56,699 vinyl album are we all old enough to 1949 01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:01,920 remember vinyl records okay I I did this 1950 01:33:09,169 --> 01:33:06,449 for for CBS in 1975 and the name of the 1951 01:33:11,990 --> 01:33:09,179 album was UFOs the credibility factor 1952 01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:12,000 and the very first person I interviewed 1953 01:33:16,820 --> 01:33:14,730 for the album was Stan Freedman and at 1954 01:33:20,270 --> 01:33:16,830 the time he and his wife Marilyn were 1955 01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:20,280 living out I I want to say Redondo Beach 1956 01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:22,170 California but I'm not sure it's one of 1957 01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:25,650 those beaches in that area and then he 1958 01:33:29,810 --> 01:33:27,690 agreed to let me come to his house and I 1959 01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:29,820 interviewed him and I was instantly 1960 01:33:36,860 --> 01:33:34,050 struck by what was he was obviously a 1961 01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:36,870 scientist and at that point in my life I 1962 01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:39,450 had not met a lot of scientists yeah he 1963 01:33:45,130 --> 01:33:41,850 was the first and he was actually very 1964 01:33:47,990 --> 01:33:45,140 closely followed by my second scientist 1965 01:33:52,030 --> 01:33:48,000 as you said which was of course J Allen 1966 01:33:57,290 --> 01:33:52,040 Hynek but I got stands first and he 1967 01:34:00,620 --> 01:33:57,300 always came across and always since then 1968 01:34:02,930 --> 01:34:00,630 in all of his lectures in all of his 1969 01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:02,940 presentations and all of his radio and 1970 01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:05,370 television interviews always came across 1971 01:34:13,010 --> 01:34:10,290 as a diligent best researcher out there 1972 01:34:15,230 --> 01:34:13,020 I thought he never wavered from his 1973 01:34:17,660 --> 01:34:15,240 commitment to find some kind of evidence 1974 01:34:20,390 --> 01:34:17,670 and then hopefully that would lead to 1975 01:34:23,180 --> 01:34:20,400 truth he would never speculate he would 1976 01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:23,190 only go for something which he felt he 1977 01:34:26,330 --> 01:34:24,810 had enough evidence based on his own 1978 01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:26,340 research 1979 01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:33,810 listened I I was always so impressed by 1980 01:34:39,890 --> 01:34:35,520 the fact that even when he moved to 1981 01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:39,900 Fredericton up in Canada every time he 1982 01:34:45,770 --> 01:34:42,570 had to go on a speaking engagement 1983 01:34:49,970 --> 01:34:45,780 somewhere anywhere whether just in the 1984 01:34:52,670 --> 01:34:49,980 United States or in Canada or in any 1985 01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:52,680 other country he was always he always 1986 01:35:00,650 --> 01:34:55,290 had to take like a minimum of five or 1987 01:35:03,050 --> 01:35:00,660 six flights to get there and he never 1988 01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:03,060 complained he was always going through 1989 01:35:09,110 --> 01:35:04,800 the airports by himself you know with 1990 01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:09,120 his rolling bags and and he was just 1991 01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:12,090 amazing he always had an amazing amount 1992 01:35:20,390 --> 01:35:15,450 of energy I was so proud about four 1993 01:35:22,910 --> 01:35:20,400 years ago two into give him the Lifetime 1994 01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:22,920 Achievement Award at the International 1995 01:35:27,410 --> 01:35:24,930 UFO Congress when ranked in the 1996 01:35:30,410 --> 01:35:27,420 Scottsdale area and it was so I was so 1997 01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:30,420 happy to go on stage to give that to him 1998 01:35:36,940 --> 01:35:33,090 and to just see the sparkle in his eyes 1999 01:35:40,340 --> 01:35:36,950 for that thing for that achievement yeah 2000 01:35:42,140 --> 01:35:40,350 and you know I'm glad I'm so glad no no 2001 01:35:43,850 --> 01:35:42,150 it's just saying I'm up in YouTube I'm 2002 01:35:45,770 --> 01:35:43,860 playing a slideshow which 2003 01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:45,780 show that present show you handing that 2004 01:35:53,060 --> 01:35:49,050 presentation actually oh-oh-oh-oh 2005 01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:53,070 excellent I won't leave you read yes yes 2006 01:36:00,320 --> 01:35:55,920 do you remember the TV show have gun 2007 01:36:02,780 --> 01:36:00,330 will travel of course with well yeah and 2008 01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:02,790 free and Stan Friedman was et will 2009 01:36:10,850 --> 01:36:10,050 travel of course everywhere everywhere 2010 01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:10,860 he went 2011 01:36:15,110 --> 01:36:13,530 he was always just lugging that that 2012 01:36:17,300 --> 01:36:15,120 rolling suitcase I think he was one of 2013 01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:17,310 the first persons who I met who actually 2014 01:36:21,710 --> 01:36:19,170 owned one of those rolling suitcases 2015 01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:21,720 that now everybody owns yeah right I 2016 01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:27,090 used it so much he got a flat tire I I'm 2017 01:36:35,480 --> 01:36:30,890 not surprised I will tell you when I 2018 01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:35,490 when I was on NBC and in my final four 2019 01:36:42,830 --> 01:36:39,210 years there I I was the host of a show 2020 01:36:46,100 --> 01:36:42,840 called the edge of reality and which I 2021 01:36:50,090 --> 01:36:46,110 am actually going to be soon bringing to 2022 01:36:53,180 --> 01:36:50,100 kgr a digital radio we we don't know the 2023 01:36:55,580 --> 01:36:53,190 exact date yet but but I will come on 2024 01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:55,590 Martin's show and his great invitation 2025 01:37:00,710 --> 01:36:58,800 and we'll talk about all the things that 2026 01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:00,720 I plan on doing with the show bringing 2027 01:37:06,140 --> 01:37:02,850 it back to radio but what I used to do 2028 01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:06,150 at least a few times a year on edge of 2029 01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:09,330 reality I would I would I would host a 2030 01:37:13,970 --> 01:37:12,690 debate between Stan Friedman and Phil 2031 01:37:17,900 --> 01:37:13,980 class Wow 2032 01:37:19,460 --> 01:37:17,910 and and both men eagerly agreed to do it 2033 01:37:21,860 --> 01:37:19,470 whenever I called him and said you guys 2034 01:37:25,580 --> 01:37:21,870 ready for another debate and they always 2035 01:37:30,350 --> 01:37:25,590 jumped on it and I have to say you know 2036 01:37:31,310 --> 01:37:30,360 I kept score and um and always came out 2037 01:37:35,650 --> 01:37:31,320 on top 2038 01:37:39,380 --> 01:37:35,660 because in my opinion he was a better 2039 01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:39,390 researcher than Phil class new class I 2040 01:37:44,870 --> 01:37:42,210 think took pride in the fact that he was 2041 01:37:46,970 --> 01:37:44,880 at the bunker but as Stan I always like 2042 01:37:49,610 --> 01:37:46,980 to point out that the bunkers just don't 2043 01:37:51,350 --> 01:37:49,620 always do their homework you know finish 2044 01:37:54,380 --> 01:37:51,360 their homework so that they can have a 2045 01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:54,390 valid opinion about UFOs stand on the 2046 01:38:00,350 --> 01:37:57,330 other hand was that kind of researcher 2047 01:38:03,170 --> 01:38:00,360 and I was always amazed he could he 2048 01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:03,180 could hold his own against anybody 2049 01:38:07,820 --> 01:38:05,970 yeah in any kind of a debate Oh there 2050 01:38:09,710 --> 01:38:07,830 was nobody better than him in a debate I 2051 01:38:11,470 --> 01:38:09,720 thought yeah Alejandro and I were 2052 01:38:14,180 --> 01:38:11,480 talking about that earlier in the show 2053 01:38:16,130 --> 01:38:14,190 he was actually bringing up how great he 2054 01:38:19,070 --> 01:38:16,140 was in a debate and I mentioned the 2055 01:38:21,050 --> 01:38:19,080 latest one I saw was with Jeremy Korbel 2056 01:38:31,430 --> 01:38:21,060 I thought he did an excellent job there 2057 01:38:33,620 --> 01:38:31,440 is 100 about Bob Lazar yeah yeah point 2058 01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:33,630 dad to that one of the few times I 2059 01:38:38,690 --> 01:38:35,760 talked with Stan was this he was just 2060 01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:38,700 telling me warning me that be very 2061 01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:40,650 careful and always do your homework 2062 01:38:47,450 --> 01:38:43,410 before he'll get on these sounds like 2063 01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:47,460 him being right yeah yeah excellent that 2064 01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:49,530 he really knew what he was talking about 2065 01:38:54,170 --> 01:38:50,730 yes 2066 01:38:56,480 --> 01:38:54,180 I I always I always quote Stan wherever 2067 01:38:57,920 --> 01:38:56,490 I am in any kind of a situation where 2068 01:38:59,240 --> 01:38:57,930 I'm talking to people to kind of get 2069 01:39:02,150 --> 01:38:59,250 them to see a different point of view 2070 01:39:05,420 --> 01:39:02,160 about UFOs and he he always loved to say 2071 01:39:08,660 --> 01:39:05,430 among other things that there was a 2072 01:39:11,330 --> 01:39:08,670 mantra that that the bunkers always had 2073 01:39:14,480 --> 01:39:11,340 about UFOs and here's that mantra and 2074 01:39:16,670 --> 01:39:14,490 somebody says that that bit of UFO 2075 01:39:18,860 --> 01:39:16,680 behavior is impossible what they're 2076 01:39:21,290 --> 01:39:18,870 really saying is I don't know how to do 2077 01:39:23,630 --> 01:39:21,300 that and so if I don't know how to do it 2078 01:39:25,430 --> 01:39:23,640 it must be impossible nobody else knows 2079 01:39:29,390 --> 01:39:25,440 how to do it either that's right 2080 01:39:32,720 --> 01:39:29,400 oh wow yeah you know and I I've come to 2081 01:39:36,020 --> 01:39:32,730 refer to that as what I call the SETI in 2082 01:39:40,250 --> 01:39:36,030 Jerome because that that's that's what 2083 01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:40,260 the city as an SETI the city city 2084 01:39:47,270 --> 01:39:44,370 because their basic attitude is their 2085 01:39:49,550 --> 01:39:47,280 their attitude is well we really think 2086 01:39:51,980 --> 01:39:49,560 that there's no evidence that indicates 2087 01:39:54,980 --> 01:39:51,990 of Earth is being visited by anyone and 2088 01:39:57,650 --> 01:39:54,990 so we're going to continue to use the 2089 01:40:00,680 --> 01:39:57,660 what little funding we can get to try 2090 01:40:03,050 --> 01:40:00,690 and find that that cosmic needle in a 2091 01:40:05,300 --> 01:40:03,060 haystack because we know that we feel 2092 01:40:06,890 --> 01:40:05,310 that we really believe that twenty years 2093 01:40:09,230 --> 01:40:06,900 from now we're kind of we're going to 2094 01:40:11,300 --> 01:40:09,240 find that signal and we'll refer to it 2095 01:40:14,090 --> 01:40:11,310 as like the hollow signal again 2096 01:40:15,650 --> 01:40:14,100 and then we'll try and respond to it in 2097 01:40:18,650 --> 01:40:15,660 some way and we'll have a conversation 2098 01:40:19,670 --> 01:40:18,660 that will last thousands of years and 2099 01:40:24,110 --> 01:40:19,680 will get us nowhere 2100 01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:24,120 I I once had a kind of an argument a 2101 01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:27,330 friendly argument with Frank Drake the 2102 01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:30,570 creator of SETI and and I and I said to 2103 01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:32,970 Frank Frank is there any part of you 2104 01:40:39,710 --> 01:40:37,170 that would consider that that maybe some 2105 01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:39,720 people out there who have reported UFOs 2106 01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:42,090 through the decades maybe some of them 2107 01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:46,170 aren't cooks or hallucinating or having 2108 01:40:53,150 --> 01:40:49,290 mental breakdowns isn't it possible and 2109 01:40:55,190 --> 01:40:53,160 he said well I haven't seen any evidence 2110 01:40:57,170 --> 01:40:55,200 no one has presented any evidence to me 2111 01:40:59,840 --> 01:40:57,180 that I would consider worth studying and 2112 01:41:06,680 --> 01:40:59,850 I said Frank they're landing in people's 2113 01:41:09,500 --> 01:41:06,690 backyards well they didn't land in my 2114 01:41:12,770 --> 01:41:09,510 backyard so until I can see something 2115 01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:12,780 that I can you know support then as far 2116 01:41:18,830 --> 01:41:14,730 as I'm concerned we're gonna fill look 2117 01:41:22,010 --> 01:41:18,840 for those cosmic signals like bang your 2118 01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:22,020 head in the wall hey thanks so much for 2119 01:41:26,390 --> 01:41:24,810 the call and and I'm so glad you 2120 01:41:27,940 --> 01:41:26,400 announced your show because I was trying 2121 01:41:30,500 --> 01:41:27,950 to figure out a way to announce it and 2122 01:41:31,940 --> 01:41:30,510 if I had permission to announce it so 2123 01:41:34,700 --> 01:41:31,950 you are going to be coming up on the 2124 01:41:36,620 --> 01:41:34,710 show will be you know will be hosting 2125 01:41:38,180 --> 01:41:36,630 you here before that launches and and 2126 01:41:40,850 --> 01:41:38,190 we'll talk all about it I'm really 2127 01:41:43,550 --> 01:41:40,860 really looking at it and I'm looking 2128 01:41:46,790 --> 01:41:43,560 forward to and again it's a very sad day 2129 01:41:50,210 --> 01:41:46,800 for all of us about dear old Stan that's 2130 01:41:50,420 --> 01:41:50,220 right you yes thank you for the call all 2131 01:41:55,820 --> 01:41:50,430 right 2132 01:41:59,210 --> 01:41:55,830 know you gentlemen have a lot more to 2133 01:42:02,090 --> 01:41:59,220 say and with that being said I would 2134 01:42:03,770 --> 01:42:02,100 definitely want you back on the show 2135 01:42:06,260 --> 01:42:03,780 again so we can talk some more but I do 2136 01:42:08,180 --> 01:42:06,270 want to actually leave the line open for 2137 01:42:10,700 --> 01:42:08,190 if anyone has a story about Stanton 2138 01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:10,710 Friedman or really fond memory I want to 2139 01:42:15,380 --> 01:42:13,050 want you to give us a call here at six 2140 01:42:17,630 --> 01:42:15,390 oh three nine six seven four OH three oh 2141 01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:17,640 you can see the number up on youtube if 2142 01:42:24,980 --> 01:42:21,330 you're watching YouTube but so before 2143 01:42:28,250 --> 01:42:24,990 right when I was taking taking the call 2144 01:42:30,260 --> 01:42:28,260 from Lee we kind of varied off of the 2145 01:42:34,210 --> 01:42:30,270 Roswell subject that we're moving on to 2146 01:42:38,660 --> 01:42:34,220 something else any any particular 2147 01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:38,670 sighting or that really you would like 2148 01:42:43,610 --> 01:42:41,250 to talk about more i I did get your 2149 01:42:44,990 --> 01:42:43,620 overall view of Roswell we'll move on 2150 01:42:46,790 --> 01:42:45,000 from that but uh 2151 01:42:48,830 --> 01:42:46,800 I just wanted to know if there's another 2152 01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:48,840 sighting that really we really thought 2153 01:42:55,550 --> 01:42:52,320 there was a lot a lot to it you know I I 2154 01:42:57,170 --> 01:42:55,560 have what I feel are you know some top 2155 01:42:59,600 --> 01:42:57,180 sightings you know I think the Phoenix 2156 01:43:01,520 --> 01:42:59,610 lights is pretty important I think these 2157 01:43:03,110 --> 01:43:01,530 are just my own opinions I'm not asking 2158 01:43:05,900 --> 01:43:03,120 you to join me 2159 01:43:07,310 --> 01:43:05,910 I think Rendlesham forest is right up 2160 01:43:11,210 --> 01:43:07,320 there there's a number of them that I 2161 01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:11,220 think are pretty amazing and and the 2162 01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:16,410 Chicago O'Hare UFO you know those are 2163 01:43:24,950 --> 01:43:19,050 all ones that are kind of you know I 2164 01:43:28,810 --> 01:43:24,960 think pretty pretty credible I was go 2165 01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:28,820 ahead Gordon you know I was gonna maybe 2166 01:43:34,310 --> 01:43:32,250 go back to ours on with John fuller 2167 01:43:34,850 --> 01:43:34,320 author of the interrupted journey oh 2168 01:43:40,160 --> 01:43:34,860 yeah 2169 01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:40,170 Franklin show in New York back in the 2170 01:43:47,390 --> 01:43:42,960 sixties and I would credit that is one 2171 01:43:51,110 --> 01:43:47,400 of the really spectacular cases NICAP 2172 01:43:57,620 --> 01:43:51,120 did a tremendous amount of investigating 2173 01:44:02,740 --> 01:43:57,630 on that and but again Kehoe held it back 2174 01:44:07,130 --> 01:44:02,750 because of his concern that that 2175 01:44:10,820 --> 01:44:07,140 Congress would not hold future hearings 2176 01:44:13,190 --> 01:44:10,830 on it you know I think that was a which 2177 01:44:15,290 --> 01:44:13,200 I think everybody knows well very can 2178 01:44:16,970 --> 01:44:15,300 add something about it yeah well for now 2179 01:44:18,500 --> 01:44:16,980 on it as I mentioned we're gonna be 2180 01:44:20,900 --> 01:44:18,510 taking calls and we do have one that 2181 01:44:22,550 --> 01:44:20,910 came in we'll get we'll get back to that 2182 01:44:24,500 --> 01:44:22,560 conversation in a minute call the your 2183 01:44:32,300 --> 01:44:24,510 first your first name and where are you 2184 01:44:34,730 --> 01:44:32,310 calling from hi hi did you say Joe yeah 2185 01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:34,740 hi Joe nice to meet you you have do you 2186 01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:37,290 want to make a comment about Stan or did 2187 01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:38,290 you have 2188 01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:43,600 for our guests I have a memory of Stan 2189 01:44:48,740 --> 01:44:46,330 and I just like to say Martin that I 2190 01:44:51,990 --> 01:44:48,750 love your show you've got a great 2191 01:44:53,700 --> 01:44:52,000 approach on on the whole subject and 2192 01:44:55,050 --> 01:44:53,710 it's a pleasure to listen to you well 2193 01:45:00,780 --> 01:44:55,060 thank you very much Mike 2194 01:45:04,310 --> 01:45:00,790 sure about five years ago I had a 2195 01:45:07,380 --> 01:45:04,320 burning desire to ask an expert about 2196 01:45:12,420 --> 01:45:07,390 one of the questionable personalities in 2197 01:45:15,630 --> 01:45:12,430 the UFO world and I found Stan 2198 01:45:18,480 --> 01:45:15,640 Friedman's email info on the internet 2199 01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:18,490 and just randomly asked him a very 2200 01:45:25,140 --> 01:45:20,530 simple question about this particular 2201 01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:25,150 person is the story legit and I mean 2202 01:45:32,550 --> 01:45:28,810 within half a day he got back to me with 2203 01:45:34,290 --> 01:45:32,560 a very thorough in-depth answer and I 2204 01:45:36,990 --> 01:45:34,300 always remembered that and I thought it 2205 01:45:39,090 --> 01:45:37,000 was a really stand-up thing to do to 2206 01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:39,100 find the time I always a busy guy I know 2207 01:45:43,470 --> 01:45:41,770 he's always traveling and he's in high 2208 01:45:45,330 --> 01:45:43,480 demand and I just thought that it was a 2209 01:45:49,710 --> 01:45:45,340 great thing for him to just say you know 2210 01:45:51,330 --> 01:45:49,720 I don't buy into it and he you know said 2211 01:45:54,030 --> 01:45:51,340 you toughed you to make your own mind up 2212 01:45:55,830 --> 01:45:54,040 but he didn't buy into it so therefore I 2213 01:45:58,620 --> 01:45:55,840 didn't buy into it because I thought he 2214 01:46:00,870 --> 01:45:58,630 was just uh you know the elder statesman 2215 01:46:03,450 --> 01:46:00,880 of the subject and that's my memory I'm 2216 01:46:06,150 --> 01:46:03,460 sad to see him go and he'll be missed 2217 01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:06,160 yeah yeah Joey I agree and I'm I'm 2218 01:46:09,060 --> 01:46:07,450 almost dying to ask you who that person 2219 01:46:12,750 --> 01:46:09,070 is but I'm not going to and I don't want 2220 01:46:14,580 --> 01:46:12,760 to know but in yeah yeah thank thank you 2221 01:46:17,460 --> 01:46:14,590 so much thank you so much for the call 2222 01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:17,470 and and in the memory and that is uh you 2223 01:46:22,980 --> 01:46:18,610 know there-there's something about Stan 2224 01:46:24,870 --> 01:46:22,990 he did he did get back he did get back 2225 01:46:28,830 --> 01:46:24,880 to people and you know can you imagine 2226 01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:28,840 is me email box how many emails that he 2227 01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:34,810 got from all over the world right yeah 2228 01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:38,730 well thank you Joe I appreciate it I 2229 01:46:50,580 --> 01:46:46,690 think I think he's gone so we're sure 2230 01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:50,590 good not to that specifically but I just 2231 01:46:53,820 --> 01:46:52,090 wanted to say that 2232 01:46:58,350 --> 01:46:53,830 if we could get just a couple of minutes 2233 01:47:00,660 --> 01:46:58,360 out and on on Barry and the and and 2234 01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:00,670 others in the field who are really 2235 01:47:06,420 --> 01:47:02,890 archiving this subject and going to 2236 01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:06,430 people's homes like mine and you're 2237 01:47:11,580 --> 01:47:09,010 scanning through boxes and boxes and 2238 01:47:15,150 --> 01:47:11,590 warehouses full of material for 2239 01:47:17,130 --> 01:47:15,160 safekeeping for future investigators and 2240 01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:17,140 researchers you know I should get you 2241 01:47:22,500 --> 01:47:19,810 together with David Marla David Marla is 2242 01:47:25,710 --> 01:47:22,510 doing the same thing out and up how did 2243 01:47:31,550 --> 01:47:25,720 you know the he's not far from Socorro 2244 01:47:33,930 --> 01:47:31,560 he's out in the Albuquerque area he's I 2245 01:47:35,250 --> 01:47:33,940 will definitely connect you to but go 2246 01:47:39,390 --> 01:47:35,260 ahead Barry I want to hear more about 2247 01:47:41,580 --> 01:47:39,400 what you're doing yeah I mean after a 2248 01:47:43,620 --> 01:47:41,590 long period of time and the subject I 2249 01:47:45,690 --> 01:47:43,630 realized that we had to get all the 2250 01:47:47,460 --> 01:47:45,700 information together in one place it 2251 01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:47,470 tended to be scattered around about 2252 01:47:53,910 --> 01:47:51,610 among investigators and lecturers and 2253 01:47:58,820 --> 01:47:53,920 and organizations and everybody had 2254 01:48:02,280 --> 01:47:58,830 their own pile to deal with and no pile 2255 01:48:05,010 --> 01:48:02,290 exactly duplicated the others so it 2256 01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:05,020 seemed like all of that information had 2257 01:48:11,220 --> 01:48:08,730 to be put in one place and and I think 2258 01:48:14,430 --> 01:48:11,230 instituted an effort which I call 2259 01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:14,440 preservation and duplication to try to 2260 01:48:18,510 --> 01:48:17,050 save the subject too many times and and 2261 01:48:21,030 --> 01:48:18,520 they could rattle off a number of 2262 01:48:23,310 --> 01:48:21,040 examples where records were lost 2263 01:48:27,900 --> 01:48:23,320 people's investigative files were 2264 01:48:29,790 --> 01:48:27,910 trashed others took the files over and 2265 01:48:33,420 --> 01:48:29,800 disappeared with them never to be seen 2266 01:48:36,210 --> 01:48:33,430 again had the the old aerial phenomena 2267 01:48:39,360 --> 01:48:36,220 research organization files disappeared 2268 01:48:41,850 --> 01:48:39,370 30 years ago and I tend to think they're 2269 01:48:44,970 --> 01:48:41,860 still around but they're in the hands of 2270 01:48:47,550 --> 01:48:44,980 people that aren't allowing outsiders to 2271 01:48:49,410 --> 01:48:47,560 see them and their makes them fairly 2272 01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:49,420 useless for research 2273 01:48:53,880 --> 01:48:51,730 fortunately the the people who have the 2274 01:48:57,720 --> 01:48:53,890 files at the time choral and Jim Lorenz 2275 01:48:59,790 --> 01:48:57,730 and it made some micro films of their 2276 01:49:02,700 --> 01:48:59,800 files but I think there's only one 2277 01:49:04,830 --> 01:49:02,710 surviving right now if there were others 2278 01:49:06,030 --> 01:49:04,840 around I'd like to know about it but 2279 01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:06,040 that the point is 2280 01:49:11,550 --> 01:49:08,770 that if the subjects going to survive if 2281 01:49:14,370 --> 01:49:11,560 the scarce information within it is 2282 01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:14,380 going to survive it has to be number one 2283 01:49:20,190 --> 01:49:16,330 identified and preserved and then to 2284 01:49:23,430 --> 01:49:20,200 duplicate it into multiple locations so 2285 01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:23,440 that if any one of those drops off the 2286 01:49:29,690 --> 01:49:26,530 radar other people will have the data 2287 01:49:34,620 --> 01:49:29,700 and it just won't become permanently 2288 01:49:37,470 --> 01:49:34,630 unattainable yeah my effort and I travel 2289 01:49:41,460 --> 01:49:37,480 around trying to copy things as much as 2290 01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:41,470 I can yeah yeah right add to that Barry 2291 01:49:48,420 --> 01:49:46,210 has written a excellent PostScript to to 2292 01:49:52,110 --> 01:49:48,430 my future Vulcan I'm working with with 2293 01:49:55,890 --> 01:49:52,120 Erica Luke's on that topic called 2294 01:49:59,220 --> 01:49:55,900 archiving the UFO topic you know done a 2295 01:50:01,250 --> 01:49:59,230 marvelous job yeah I'm sure you both 2296 01:50:04,620 --> 01:50:01,260 have heard about the Project Blue Book 2297 01:50:08,340 --> 01:50:04,630 files that were being sold at a on 2298 01:50:10,350 --> 01:50:08,350 Craigslist I like an estate sale I don't 2299 01:50:14,100 --> 01:50:10,360 know if you heard about that yours oh 2300 01:50:17,370 --> 01:50:14,110 yeah that was Sergeant Morano wasn't it 2301 01:50:21,180 --> 01:50:17,380 I think it was him that it originated 2302 01:50:23,940 --> 01:50:21,190 from I believe in the Ohio yes mm-hmm 2303 01:50:27,900 --> 01:50:23,950 yeah yeah I had seen that when it's 2304 01:50:30,210 --> 01:50:27,910 surfaced and I was fascinated with it 2305 01:50:33,510 --> 01:50:30,220 because usually blue book files aren't 2306 01:50:35,160 --> 01:50:33,520 out of the system except in rare 2307 01:50:38,970 --> 01:50:35,170 circumstances but there was a whole 2308 01:50:41,130 --> 01:50:38,980 stash that Morano had kept and and he 2309 01:50:44,010 --> 01:50:41,140 made them available and fortunately they 2310 01:50:46,860 --> 01:50:44,020 they survived now yeah yeah it's amazing 2311 01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:46,870 and there actually had Dave Marlar 2312 01:50:50,460 --> 01:50:48,970 archive out in New Mexico that I spoke 2313 01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:50,470 to you about and I'll definitely be 2314 01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:52,570 talking more about that bury you know 2315 01:50:57,210 --> 01:50:54,730 we're we're we only got a minute left so 2316 01:50:58,710 --> 01:50:57,220 if there's a any burning desire for 2317 01:51:02,070 --> 01:50:58,720 anything else you'd either one of you 2318 01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:02,080 would like to say one at a time Gordon 2319 01:51:08,070 --> 01:51:03,610 do you have anything uh we have just 2320 01:51:11,670 --> 01:51:08,080 less than a minute left here you have oh 2321 01:51:13,860 --> 01:51:11,680 no I don't think scripted I think it's I 2322 01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:13,870 think you've done a wonderful job with 2323 01:51:19,160 --> 01:51:17,440 the with the show and hopefully some 2324 01:51:22,070 --> 01:51:19,170 people will take notice and 2325 01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:22,080 and saving whatever UFO materials they 2326 01:51:28,910 --> 01:51:25,890 have so they can survive into the future 2327 01:51:32,780 --> 01:51:28,920 right right all right I regret that 2328 01:51:34,810 --> 01:51:32,790 Judah I was one of the great fault about 2329 01:51:37,550 --> 01:51:34,820 that but I was so fed up after 2330 01:51:40,120 --> 01:51:37,560 particularly after I was fired from my 2331 01:51:42,260 --> 01:51:40,130 captain I got rid of much more 2332 01:51:45,500 --> 01:51:42,270 information than that and then I thought 2333 01:51:47,150 --> 01:51:45,510 wow wow all right you two I have to go 2334 01:51:50,209 --> 01:51:47,160 so that's the end of the show thank you 2335 01:51:52,850 --> 01:51:50,219 so much it's been a real pleasure 2336 01:51:56,209 --> 01:51:52,860 all right all right take care all right 2337 01:51:58,780 --> 01:51:56,219 everyone so that is it for this show I 2338 01:52:02,209 --> 01:51:58,790 want to thank you all for listening and 2339 01:52:05,380 --> 01:52:02,219 this show again is dedicated to Stanton 2340 01:52:09,380 --> 01:52:05,390 Friedman and he will be greatly missed 2341 01:52:12,860 --> 01:52:09,390 next week we have MJ bonus on he's 2342 01:52:14,990 --> 01:52:12,870 always a treat and I do want to thank 2343 01:52:18,110 --> 01:52:15,000 everyone that helps out and supports the